Okay, so now we know about the Stormcloaks and how they are fighting for the old Nordic ways, etc. from the thread by ArthurDayne. Great info, but I feel that so far we know much more about the Stormcloaks than we do about the Imperials. We don't know (but we do think) whether the Empire is a puppet state of the Thalmor or whether they are actually doing anything to resist Thalmor control. So far all the evidence has been against the Imperials, pointing towards them being a puppet state.

EDIT: Some more info on the Thalmor related to the MQ, so I'll put spoiler tags since this thread is supposed to be more about the Legion questline or Lore spoilers.


Can anyone who "know" or are "enlightened" enough prove/disprove if the Imperial Legion (the Legion in Skyrim, at the very least) is doing anything to resist the Thalmor? Can we kill them legally if we join the Legion? Or maybe prove that they have fully submitted themselves to Thalmor rule?

So far, these are the points that indicate Imperial submission or resistance: (Feel free to post anything I've missed so I can add on to the list)

Imperial Submission
1) Banning of Talos Worship (I know they did it out of necessity, but still )
2) Imperial Soldiers in Full Elven Armour in Skyrim (not all)
3) Imperial Legion and Thalmor rumoured to "like" each other (in terms of faction relations like in Morrowind)
4) Thalmor Embassy in Skyrim (Depends on how you see it. Diplomatic thing or giving up land to an enemy?)
5) Allegedly bought out the deceased High King of Skyrim to allow Thalmor to patrol and hunt down Talos worshippers.

Imperial Resistance
1) General Tullius apparently dislikes the Thalmor but can't do anything due to orders.

We are allied with those blasted eleves for the duration of the civial war, once it is done and Tamriel has rebuilt its strength we will strike at out the Thalmor, and bring the Emprie back to its former glory.

Sigh...I can't tell whether I want the thalmor purged or those lizards purged first.

That would be ideal, but we have no proof of that, do we? The Legion questline might well end without anything involving fighting back against the Thalmor, and the entire game might not have anything about the Empire resisting Thalmor rule at all; not from what we know so far.

Well I know the Blades are confirmed to be in the game. The Blades are devout followers of Talos. I figured they would be helping the Stormcloaks because of this, but they could very well be working underground for the Empire (to get rid of Thalmor influence). It would be neat if the Imperial Legion storyline involved this to some degree.

Indeed. So far I am completely unaware of what the Legion questline is about though. Just killing Stormcloaks? The Stormcloaks seem to have the greater motivation at the moment.

Very obviously the Empire will want to be on the good side of Thalmor. They won't do anything to anger the Elves not to trigger another war, they are too weak to resist another attack. The Thalmor are using this to their advantage. There is no "Imperial resistance" simply because they are deliberately following Thalmor interests to guarantee their own existance. The Empire has no power to fight the Thalmor, obviously, and it won't have after the revolt in Skyrim is over, simply because it is smaller and weaker than before, and its forces will be exhausted from fighting in Skyrim. They can't sprout soldiers out of the ground to fight the Thalmor, sorry, but you guys are delusional if you believe that there will be any "resistance" at all.

Hehe your use of the word "known" reminds me of someone who say thinks like:

When a mind does not know itself, it is flawed. When a mind is flawed, the man is flawed. When a man is flawed, that which he touches is flawed. It is said that what a flawed man sees, his hands make broken. ^^

sorry for ot.

True, but knowing Bethesda, there is no "good" guy necessarily, just misunderstood people. They always seem to try and personify the "bad guy" as much as possible. I would not be surprised if we find covert attempts at overthrowing Thalmor influence while playing the Imperial Legion questline. I wouldn't be surprised if we discover more sinister motives for putting Ulfric on the high throne of Skyrim while playing the Stormcloak questline.

The way i took it was that there's only one Blade in the game, The final Blade Esbern.

Exactly, this isn't a game of good vs evil.

Maybe this was the confirmation that I read; something about the Blades being in the game. It could very well be that Esbern is "the final Blade." Regardless, you can bet he'll be against the Thalmor, whether through the Stormcloak story or the Imperial Legion story.

From what I've read there is more than just Esbern. Also, if the Empire is "too weak" to resist the Thalmor, then the Stormcloaks would seem better or more "good" because the Thalmor are portrayed as very evil, and at least they are opposing it. (They are anti-human and we the players are human. They even don't like non-Altmer elves.)

There is a Blade woman too. Was she called Delphine? I'm not totally sure about the name. So there may be more.

Yes, I've read about her quite a few times so I'm pretty sure Esbern isn't the only Blade. I've also heard rumours that Delphine and Esbern might have conflicting idealogies, but I don't know anything about that.

Will be following the Empire, but secretly do anything to mess things up for the Thalmor

The thing is, I'm worried about the viability of such a thing. Knowing the way NPCs in TES usually work, since the Thalmor are allied with the Legion, killing them might very well cause a drop in disposition of the Legion towards you or might even get you expelled from the Legion. If the Legion ignores Thalmor killings, I'll see it as a big sign that they aren't under control of the Thalmor and they want them out of the Empire.

EDIT: I have a feeling the Legion in Skyrim might be like the Tribunal Temple in Morrowind. They were cool and all, but conflicted hugely with the main quest. If you became Patriarch of the Temple and then do the Main Quest, you would end up being Patriarch of a faction that hates you.

None that I've seen so far, but I haven't seen any more spoilers than that first 20 mins video and the werewolf one.

But honestly, there must be some sort of Imperial plan to overthrow the Thalmor at some point. Why else assent to them censoring Talosian worship and fighting the Stormcloaks "on the Thalmor's behalf"?

I can't believe they could logically think, "Hey, let's help the Thalmor censor Talos and kill other humans for them to further their plans for erasing humanity from existence. In reward, maybe they'll kill us last!"

If that's the reasoning, I'd like to know why Bethesda decided to make the Imperial leadership so hopelessly idiotic and cowardly.

The Empire is a puppet state of the Aldmeri Dominion. Dont try to find signs of enemity. Thats precisely why the Nords are rioting.

While the Empire is technically at peace with the Thalmor, I imagine it's more of a cold war. The Thalmor ideology is obviously antithetical to the Empire, and I'm sure the Imperials realize this. Perhaps the Imperial Legion plot line involves multiple paths to strengthening the Empire... Working behind the scenes to thwart the Thalmor interests in Skyrim, as well as putting down the Stormcloak rebellion.

Delphine.

I am not only trying to prove the Empire's resistance, I am also trying to disprove it as well. Until you can disprove it isn't a fact that the Empire is a puppet state of the Aldmeri Dominion, and until you can prove it it isn't a fact that the Empire isn't a puppet state of the Aldmeri Dominion either.

That's a contradiction, really. If the Empire truly wanted to thwart the Thalmor, it would let all its provinces free. So they may continue to defy the treaty.

That treaty will destroy the Empire.

The Empire seems to be in a lose-lose situation. If they didn't sign the treaty, the Thalmor would invade, and in all likelihood the Empire would be crushed(why else would they sign the treaty, otherwise?). Letting the other provinces be free would mean the Empire would no longer be an empire... It would just be the kingdom of Cyrodiil, right?

Either way, the Thalmor-Empire war is inevitable. The former's goals include the genocide of the human race, from what I've read. The treaty is just a temporary ceasefire for both sides of the conflict, giving each side time to build it's strength up.

Of course, that's just me speculating based on the bits and pieces of the story we know.

Edit: The Stormcloak rebellion seems to be fairly myopic. The Thalmor don't just want to conquer/destroy the Imperials... but all human races. A free Skyrim would be a lot less able to defend itself than a Skyrim backed by the Empire.

Again, like most, you make the assumption that the Empire has any desire to defend itself or its provinces anymore. All the lore suggests that this is no longer the case, and that it's actively helping the Thalmor.