[REQ] Balance Consolidation - Tell us your ideas!

Post » Thu May 17, 2012 3:23 am

For me food and cooking were one of the main things I noticed. For example you have various archetypes for consumable items in Skyrim.

Potions: Gives buffs and various effects as well as instantly replenishes resources.
Scrolls: Much like potions but a one time use and typically very potent especially since the effects are not dependent on the skills of the caster.
Weapons: Buffs and deal damage
Jewelry/Armor: Protecting from damage and buffs

Food: instantly replenishes resources just like potions and gives buffs just like potions...
While some foods do give more interesting buffs MOST food is nothing more than a very weak potion. So with that said I am leaning in the direction of suggesting that food should be about increasing your out of combat regen for magicka and hit points. This combined with greatly reducing the regen that hit points and magicka have should make you think more about keeping some food on hand. A decent sized cooked meal should give a buff that lasts upwards of 20-30 minutes.

Just a thought
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Theodore Walling
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 3:04 am

For me food and cooking were one of the main things I noticed. For example you have various archetypes for consumable items in Skyrim.

Potions: Gives buffs and various effects as well as instantly replenishes resources.
Scrolls: Much like potions but a one time use and typically very potent especially since the effects are not dependent on the skills of the caster.
Weapons: Buffs and deal damage
Jewelry/Armor: Protecting from damage and buffs

Food: instantly replenishes resources just like potions and gives buffs just like potions...
While some foods do give more interesting buffs MOST food is nothing more than a very weak potion. So with that said I am leaning in the direction of suggesting that food should be about increasing your out of combat regen for magicka and hit points. This combined with greatly reducing the regen that hit points and magicka have should make you think more about keeping some food on hand. A decent sized cooked meal should give a buff that lasts upwards of 20-30 minutes.

Just a thought

Hmm, this is more about adding a new gameplay element than changing gameplay me thinks. I agree Cooking is rather useless, but it's a skilless action. I did have a request in for a similar Simple Hunger System that's based around just Stamina -- http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1276879-req-simple-hunger-system/

Edit:

New balance idea: To further reduce the overpowered Heavy Armor effectiveness, there should be a delay for changing each piece of armor during combat. Right now there's really no reason to train anything but Heavy Armor since you can always switch to wearing a full set of Heavy Armor instantly.
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jessica sonny
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 10:00 pm

Playing yet another playthrough as a thief I keep running into situations where an ancient dungeon full of undead is amazingly lit. As we all know Bows are overpowered when combined with Sneak, but this is surely underpowered until you get very high levels of Sneak. We *need* a way to extinguish these lights at lower levels, and/or a way to use Magic to reduce the light's effectiveness, a Chameleon-like effect that only works on decreasing the light penalty. Of course we'd have to decrease Sneak's base effectiveness if we did this.
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Penny Wills
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 10:12 pm

Smithing
-Swap daedra and Dragon in skill requirements. Daedra should take 100, Dragon should take 90, imo.

Best idea right there, that way smiths can specialize in only one type of Armor (light or heavy) without having to spend points in the other branch to get access to Daedric weapons (poor light armor smiths).
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Sharra Llenos
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 8:38 pm

for NPC AI: when sneak attacked or NPC killed and other NPC's around, more time needs to be spent looking for player. I can easily sneak attack an enemy, run away and within 10 seconds I can go back and do it all over again.
Also create a better line of sight for NPC's, lots of times I am sneaking and NPC is staring at me and can't see me.
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Wayland Neace
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 7:34 pm

Change to smithing perks would be nice...why is orc gear harder to craft than elven when it isn't as good? Orc gear also seems fairly common after a few levels so I'm wondering if there was a mistake in the crafting perk system. I realize that they are on 2 seperate paths of crafting but it still doesn't add up. From what I've seen there is no way you should be able to craft elven weapons and armour with a lower skill prereq than orcish. Imo make orcish crafting avail at 30, elven at 40, dwarven at 50 amd boost dwarven gear a bit in power and value.
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Dustin Brown
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 10:41 pm

OK, I've been going over various ideas for Smithing and Enchanting and what I've come up with so far, besides small tweaks, is adding a max durability system for both. No idea if this is all possible even with SKSE but let's hope it is!

- Armor and weapons have a rather large base durability which determines what its stats are.

- Improving equipment adds a relatively small amount to the durability, so improved armor will go back down to base quality much faster than base quality will start decreasing equipment stats. This means if you go Smithing expect to have to refine your armor over and over again if you're a build that takes a lot of hits.

- Repair Hammers will be back in the game, but they cannot repair beyond base quality.

- Enchanted Armor will now have charges, and every hit takes off a certain number of charges. They are recharged the same way as weapons and staves. Rings and Necklaces will not degrade on hit.

- Everytime you recharge a non-unique weapon or armor, its max charges goes down by a certain number. When it goes down to 0 the equipment loses its effects.

- Certain effects will have more max charges than others.

- The script will take into account how many enchanted pieces, ring and necklace included, that you are wearing. The idea here is that the immensely powerful magic used in high-level enchanting doesn't work well together -- each is trying to dominate with its effect and fighting the other enchanted pieces.

Note: Ideally I'd like Enchanted Effects to degrade based on SKILL usage, so whenever you cast a Restoration spell with Armor that decreases Restoration cost by 10% would lose its max charges every time you cast a Restoration spell. Not sure this will be initially possible, if ever. This is all pretty ambitious to start with.

Now this will all coincide with an improvement to Soul Trapping to make it: 1) Smarter, so your Grand Soul Gem doesn't get a Petty soul in it, and optionally 2) You can increase the level of a soul by using lots and lots and lots of smaller souls. So a Grand Soul Gem can be get a Grand Soul in it by trapping 20-100 Petty Souls.


Now for Alchemy the balancing will include much more fine-tuning, lots of little changes with a cumulative effect.
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Sweets Sweets
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 8:30 pm

OK, I've been going over various ideas for Smithing and Enchanting and what I've come up with so far,
I like your ideas, and would be glad to have repair back, but my request would be to have items not degrade too quickly. Maybe a system where items degrade based on how much damage they take, and have them degrade slowly at first, but more quickly as they take more damage? So 100% - 99% takes longer than 50% - 49%.

I've like to see a mechanic where you don't have to re-smith after every cave, except for unusual situations. Also, it might be nice to forge repair hammers but preferably with only a small increment to skill counters, so we don't accidently all get 100 smithing from making hammers.
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c.o.s.m.o
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 9:56 am

Have a look here http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1277977-balance-patch/page__hl__balancing

Heavy Armor
-Full set of Iron should reduce Magicka regeneration by ~20%, Full set of Daedra should reduce magicka regeneration by 90%. This is a per-piece thing, based on a percentage based on armor.(What I mean by this is - Your chest will have the bulk of the reduction, while your feet and gloves will have the lowest - As chest has the bulk of the armor, and gloves/feet have the lowest.)
-Swap Coushioned and Conditioning (to match Unhindered in Light Armor tree)

Light Armor
-Full set of bottom-line reduce magicka regeneration by ~10%, Full set of Dragon reduce magicka regeneration by 50%. This is a per-piece thing, based on a percentage based on armor.

Destruction is all around a poor damage build. The damage is low compared to ..everyone else, and at least 1/5th of the spells are either useless because of limitations(Rune spells - only 1?) or are too mana intensive for anyone to really be able to use(it takes me ~6 FULL mana bars to take down a dragon on master.)
-Damage scaling isn't there..at all. 1 Destruction or 100 destruction - I believe this is a bug.
-Mana Cost Reduction from Novice to Master perks increased from 50% to 75%.
-The perks are lackluster. +50% damage? Every other tree gets +100% + crit chances/increased damage/other misc effects. If It's possible I'd like to make this 35% 25% per perk - with 5 points. This will force people to be more specialized while bringing destruction on par with others.
-With my prior change, This would be the squishiest build in the game(it already practically is...but you can still wear full heavy) - and as such should be a power house, not a wimp.
-Impact Replaced - Increase damage when Dual casting by 200% 100%, Cast time increased by 2 seconds. - This would be the casters response to "Sneak Attack".(Stunlocking dragons is kinda lame, I think this is a much more elegant solution that doesn't rely on cheesing)
-Fire's Fear, and Frost's Deep Freeze changed. Now instead of happening under a certain amount of hp - Always has a 20% chance of happening on all but the largest targets.
-Rune Master changed. Now allows you to place up to 4 3 runes, ontop of its current effect.
-You can no longer Dual Cast runes.(They're just too powerful with these changes)

Conjuration/attacking skill scales FAR too well.
-Double Scaling(from Attacking skill, then from conjuration) it makes it FAR too powerful early-game. Maybe base Bound Weapons on level, rather than conjuration level? With other suggestions this should balance out.
-More damage from Fire pets, Less from Ice. The tanky pet shouldn't do more damage than the caster =/.
-Ability to companion share with the Master Conjuration Undead minions.

Alteration
-Alteration perk to increase duration increased from 100%, to 400%. Dropping deep in the tree should allow you to recast less often.

Illusion
-Illusion spells now have an inherent chance to fail based on skill vs enemies level. {I need to know if this will be possible with the kit as well}
-Continue up to level 50, rather than stop at lv 30(Illusion).
-Would like to add a long-lasting damage over time effect. Something to let Illusion be played stand alone - just be slow on bosses.

Restoration
-Needs more reason to actually use it... 3 points for +250 hp when dying is the only real use I can find for it =/
-The increase to undead damage really needs to raise. A lot. Talking like quintuple whatever it is now.
-Novice - master perks should reduce magicka cost by 75%.

Enchanting - breaking the game since day 2.
-Disallow Skill(pickpocket, hide, smithing, alchemy, etc) enchants.
-Reduce damage enchants by ~ 30%.(One-handed, Two-handed, Archery)
-Make enchanting level a little faster. Enchanting skill ups based on the level of soul gem you use. Petty gives half the skill ups it does now, While black/grand gives double, and everything in between gives between .6-1.9.
-Reduce Magicka Regeneration over 100%, This shouldn't go above 300% - even with a full set of enchanted gear. - Testing around with this I actually think you should be able to go higher.
-Remove -magicka spell costs from being able to be enchanted, aside of Restoration. Paladins should still be viable imo.
-Black Star shouldn't absorb White Souls. It is clearly a bug, since as it is there is no point in selecting Azura's Star over Black Star.
-Change the entire left side of the tree
- Elemental Prowess: Increase the effect of Fire, Lightning, and Cold enchants on Weapons and Armor by 25%
- Staff specialisation: Staff are now 25% more effective. 5 points.
- Soul management: Staff and weapon consumme 50% less charge.
-Remove Muffled enchant since this completely eleminates the need for points in Sneak - or lower its effectiveness, or simply replace with +20% sneak bonus.
-Addition: In addition to reduce damage enchants by ~30% I would also place a cap here at lets say max 50% more damage.
-Weapon enchants that make enemies not attack now only have 5 charges per Black/Grand Soul Gem down to 1 per Petty soul gem. Such as: Calm, Fear, and Paralyze.


Alchemy
-Disallow Skill(pickpocket, hide, smithing, enchanting etc) Potions
-IMO sell value is fine, Making gold off of searching every alchemist ingredient to make potions is a fair way to make gold.
-Include the Experimenter Perk into the first one (or remove it completely)
-At the spot of Experimenter Perk should be Green Thumb (with skill level 60 requirement)
-Snakeblood should make you 100% resist to poisons (hey, it requires skill level 80)
-The top Perk should be something else, no idea atm I think the top perk is pretty fitting. A secondary effect is probably in order here though.

Smithing
-Swap daedra and Dragon in skill requirements. Daedra should take 100, Dragon should take 90, imo. Add Dragon Weapons to be on par with Daedra, also require some rare reagent.
-Make smithing skill gains dependent on material usage. If you use 1 iron ingot + 1 leather strips, it should have 1/4th of the effect of making something for 4 iron ingots and 4 leather strips. Also of course more advanced materials would help the skill gain tremendously. Basically, make it a long,long grind to get to 100 smithing from making iron daggers and leather bracers.
-There is no Perk that lets you double the effect on Leather Armor (e.g. Thieves Guild) and Iron(?), the first Perk should do that - rename to "Basic Smithing"
-Cap Smithing improvements at Legendary (don't go further)

Lockpicking
-Treasure hunter should be 2 points, 50% and 100%.

Pickpocket
-Reduce chance to pickpocket gold exponentially by its value. Over 1k should never be pickpocketable. This would stop the exploit of pickpocketing trainers after skill 50, roughly. This seems like the simplest solution.
-Replace "Extra Pockets" with a short-duration(4/2 second) paralyze, or sleep. Ineffective against targets over level 30 without points in illusion.

Speech
-If possible, something to reduce the cd on shouts by 5/10 seconds.

Shouts
-Double all cooldowns

Powers
-Place a more reasonable cooldown on these.(I'm thinking 10-15 minutes)

Companions
-Give them a heal spell, some magicka, and remove their kneeling to full hp(if this will be possible - really not sure). They're practically immortal right now.

Enemies
-Increase Dragons Resistances, and Armor dependent on the level of dragon. Blood Dragons should receive health from hitting people.
-Beyond the first dragon - Increase dragons' breath damage so that without resistance they are deadly(thinking about ~30% here).
-Increase Dragons HP by 75%.

Please put any suggestions, changes, or arguments below! I'll update this post as the thread goes on! :D
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Charlotte X
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 12:33 am

Definitely agree with a lot of the points. Destruction magic is definitely far far too weak. I've all but given it up and my ~600 mana pool for a sword and shield as my super buffed daedric sword does wayyyyy more damage per hit.

However I'm not completely sure I like the idea of having to recharge armor. I get where you guys are coming from but money in this game isn't really that hard to come by so all this means is I'd have to buy a bunch of soul gems every time I enter town and then use them on my gear. It's more of a nuisance than a real drawback. I'll admit the armor breaking would svck, however it's not that hard to get the materials to smith new (unless you plan on removing daedra hearts from shop lists) which once again just equates to a tedious nuisance item. It's also worth mentioning that soul trap is a close range spell and that if you rebalance mages to not wear heavy armor it's going to be hurting the mage's combat tactics if they have to run in to soul trap to keep their robes charged (unless you want mages to have to just always buy already filled soul gems).

-Remove Enchanting potions.(They outright break the game. Hi2u +1000% enchanting)
I hate how no one seems to TEST anything before they start assuming things. Unless I'm missing something major, the people spreading rumors about super buff enchantments are just bad at math. Creating a potion of enchant with ALL 6 positive potion brewing alchemy perks and all 4 pieces of +25% alchemy gear creates gear that does +29% alchemy then putting on the 4 pieces (hat, gloves, rings, amulet) and drinking the best potion they make +32% enchanting = more +29% alchemy gear. Unless there is some other way people are adding alchemy there is no way to infinitely cycle +enchant potions and make alchemy gear, the bonuses are too small to add even an extra +1% and it peaks, after only 1 cycle (tested in-game).

-Swap daedra and Dragon in skill requirements. Daedra should take 100, Dragon should take 90, imo. Add Dragon Weapons to be on par with Daedra, also require some rare reagent.
Agreed that dragon being a 100 perk when daedra is better should be fixed, however we can't just swap them unless you want to add dragon to both the light and heavy armor side (remember the dragon armor perk unlocks both heavy and light armor versions)
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Jesus Duran
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 6:57 pm

- The magic schools need to get all of their spells back to be more viable (cure disease, weakness to x, fortify skill, open lock, etc)
- Spell effectiveness/magnitude needs to scale with skillevel. Magicka cost should be fixed in return/reducable with perks.
- The enchanting master perk totally breaks the whole skill. Either change it so you can't place the same enchantment twice, or change the perk entirely.
- Soul Siphon is totally useless. Increase the soul drain to at least 50%.
- Enchanted items should scale with skillevel, even if not enchanted yourself. So if you find a staff with 30 fire damage, you can increase that damage by leveling enchanting. This might require some balance in turn with self-enchanted items, but staffs are currently totally useless.
- Alchemy needs to be toned down overall.
- Smithing upgrades should be temporary buffs. Sharpening your blade won't last a lifetime. This would be a huge change though, I'm not sure if it's even possible.
- Fortify skill effects need to actually fortify the skill. Tweaking and balancing the skill's effect will become easier this way, and you won't have to govern so many numbers (what do my perks actually amount to? what does my skillevel do?)

maybe more later.
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joeK
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 12:26 am

- The enchanting master perk totally breaks the whole skill. Either change it so you can't place the same enchantment twice, or change the perk entirely.
You can't place the same enchantment twice on one item.... although you can come close with the -reduced magicka cost per school (there's 1 buff that's a straight - reduced magicka cost % and another that's a lesser - reduced magicka cost % with an added + magicka regen)
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Laura Shipley
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 4:56 am

You can't place the same enchantment twice on one item.... although you can come close with the -reduced magicka cost per school (there's 1 buff that's a straight - reduced magicka cost % and another that's a lesser - reduced magicka cost % with an added + magicka regen)
I see. Didn't know that. What makes enchanting inherently overpowered then, except for reducing spellcost to 0? Is it the synergy with alchemy's fortify enchanting?
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Your Mum
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 7:43 pm

The unique legendary loot in the game should be better than anything a character with smithing = 100 can knock together in a forge.

On the flip-side, some weapons do too much damage as it is. Dragons should take a minimum of 50 swings/casts of the highest end weapons/spells.

This needs to go hand in hand with a complete removal of scaled loot imo. Scaled vendor lists at the very least have to go.
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Stephanie Nieves
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 8:55 am

I see. Didn't know that. What makes enchanting inherently overpowered then, except for reducing spellcost to 0? Is it the synergy with alchemy's fortify enchanting?
Nope, that actually was all hype. You can't make +1000% stuff like everyone kept thinking. You can enchant +alchemy gear and then use it to make enchanting potions which you then drink to make better alchemy gear ONCE. After that it's maxed out. The best + enchantment potion you can make is +32% which = +29% alchemy gloves, ring, amulet, hat. Which wearing all 4 with the alchemy perks just makes another +32% potion, it doesn't keep increasing upwards like people kept fearing.

However there's still a small handful of problems with enchanting that make it overpowered.
1) Reducing spell costs to 0 which can be fairly overpowering when you are casting master level destruction spells for 0 mp.
2) Being able to make +47% one-handed/two-handed/bow damage gloves, ring, amulet, and boots (then add perks and +130% smithing pot and 4 pieces of +29% smithing gear)
3) Being able to excel at ANYTHING, need to pickpocket a bit? Throw on 4 items with +47% pickpocket, need to sneak 4 items with +47% sneak
4) Nigh-Invulnerability - Shield with block +47% and frost resist +54%, ring with frost 54% and shock 54%, amulet with shock 54% and fire 54%, boots with fire 54% and magic 23%
As a Breton with the Lord's Stone, a handful of specific perks, and smithing and you've got > 100% resists in fire, frost, shock, magic and over 1500 armor not to mention a shield that blocks basically everything. Plus you still have your gloves, chest, and helm to enchant however you like.
5) Double enchanting weapons - Absorb health + paralysis or absorb stamina.
Needless to say enchantment is definitely overpowered, it's just not able to be mixed with alchemy to infinite loop like some people feared.
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Matt Terry
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 6:31 am

The unique legendary loot in the game should be better than anything a character with smithing = 100 can knock together in a forge.

On the flip-side, some weapons do too much damage as it is. Dragons should take a minimum of 50 swings/casts of the highest end weapons/spells.
Seriously...severely limit Enchanting and Smithing and you will balance most of the game out. I am not even using a bunch of exploits and I can make a 160% Archery Damage and Sneak suit +4 additional enchantments. 100% reduced magicka cost for two entire schools being one extra possibility. OP much? Destruction and Restoration. Hold buttons down...

Dawnbreaker is next to useless in comparison to any slightly upgraded weapons. I scales badly with smithing too. Only going to 98+15 fire dam with 100 and all perks in Onehanded, Enchanting and Smithing, plus Smithing enchantments and potions boosting its effectiveness to 220%. Daedric longsword on the other hand can have a base damage of like 176 with this plus 152 additional elemental damage.

Spellbreaker's ward shield does nothing at higher levels because everything is so damn OP at those levels. I think the Daedric artifacts should scale as you level with them. Or be much more useful and powerful.

30 perks or less = god mode. Smithing, Enchantments, Weapon/dam skill. Ridiculous. Skyforge weapons are the easiest to make incredibly powerful early on.

Make Ancestral Wrath do a little more damage and have a slightly extended range. Tweeks to almost all the racials are needed.
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Sylvia Luciani
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 6:36 am

Aye, it's silly.

You: "Yay! I've found Eleidon's Ward! Shield of legend and myth, wielded by the god's themselves!"
Blacksmith: "Yes, but look at this enchanted ebony shield I just knocked together in my kitchen, it's far more powerful than that s**t yo!"

etc...
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JAY
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 9:39 am

The unique legendary loot in the game should be better than anything a character with smithing = 100 can knock together in a forge.
Absolutely. I was so disappointed with my Savior's Hide, although you could argue it's still one of the better artifacts ...

Nope, that actually was all hype. You can't make +1000% stuff like everyone kept thinking. You can enchant +alchemy gear and then use it to make enchanting potions which you then drink to make better alchemy gear ONCE. After that it's maxed out. The best + enchantment potion you can make is +32% which = +29% alchemy gloves, ring, amulet, hat. Which wearing all 4 with the alchemy perks just makes another +32% potion, it doesn't keep increasing upwards like people kept fearing.

However there's still a small handful of problems with enchanting that make it overpowered.
1) Reducing spell costs to 0 which can be fairly overpowering when you are casting master level destruction spells for 0 mp.
2) Being able to make +47% one-handed/two-handed/bow damage gloves, ring, amulet, and boots (then add perks and +130% smithing pot and 4 pieces of +29% smithing gear)
3) Being able to excel at ANYTHING, need to pickpocket a bit? Throw on 4 items with +47% pickpocket, need to sneak 4 items with +47% sneak
4) Nigh-Invulnerability - Shield with block +47% and frost resist +54%, ring with frost 54% and shock 54%, amulet with shock 54% and fire 54%, boots with fire 54% and magic 23%
As a Breton with the Lord's Stone, a handful of specific perks, and smithing and you've got > 100% resists in fire, frost, shock, magic and over 1500 armor not to mention a shield that blocks basically everything. Plus you still have your gloves, chest, and helm to enchant however you like.
5) Double enchanting weapons - Absorb health + paralysis or absorb stamina.
Needless to say enchantment is definitely overpowered, it's just not able to be mixed with alchemy to infinite loop like some people feared.
I see. Well, that's quite a relief. If it's "just" the magnitude of enchantments that is overpowered, that could be easy enough to fix. However, enchanting becomes easily useless then, because you will frequently find better enchantments. Why would you disenchant a 40% fire resist shield to make a 12% resist shield? We would have to scale down all enchanted items, except artifacts perhaps. All this while making enchanted weapons a useful option without having to micromanage your soulgems all the time. Meaning, buffing the Soul Siphon perk.
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mike
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 11:24 pm

"To Easy" is a meaningless statement.

To be accurate, the statement would need example (list of perks, and gear and consumables used, and opponent), along with some statement about play style. And, if any gameplay changing mods are in effect (like anything that changes encumbarance rules). (Any "reload from save" approach will make the game massively easier: I think that "master" difficulty should disable the "Save" menu and put a 10 minute cooldown on autosave after load.)

And, yes, too many examples would be just as much of a problem as too few. But without some detailed thought about alternative builds and alternative playstyles, you are not "fixing" balance, you are destroying it.

That said, destroying balance is OK. But it would be nice if the "balance mod" said something about assumptions and so on.

I will add this: fighting an elder dragon with a light armored stealth specialist at level 35 was something I gave up on. When I got down to about 200 health, I was dead. The combat was probably not unwinnable, but not without abusing game mechanics (healing myself to full after each injury and repeating the battle until I could do that without running out of potions and without dying).

Anyways... if this mod is about making the game challenging for people that use load-from-save? Or if it's about making the game moderately challenging even without reload for someone with a specific set of perks and gear? That is totally fine (just like god mode mods are totally fine, and psychedelic bridge mods are totally fine) -- but please label it properly?
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Charlotte Lloyd-Jones
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 8:03 pm

I think that "master" difficulty should disable the "Save" menu and put a 10 minute cooldown on autosave after load.

But without some detailed thought about alternative builds and alternative playstyles, you are not "fixing" balance, you are destroying it.

I will add this: fighting an elder dragon with a light armored stealth specialist at level 35 was something I gave up on. When I got down to about 200 health, I was dead. The combat was probably not unwinnable, but not without abusing game mechanics (healing myself to full after each injury and repeating the battle until I could do that without running out of potions and without dying).

Anyways... if this mod is about making the game challenging for people that use load-from-save? Or if it's about making the game moderately challenging even without reload for someone with a specific set of perks and gear?
There's a history of balance mods for TES games so you should take a look at them to get an idea about some of the assumptions and core ideas. OOO would be a good place to start, there's plenty of documentation and discussion.

My personal take is that balancing mods are created to make sense out of a jumble of poorly conceived noise. BGS stats tend to not be thought out so the idea that balance would be destroyed by a mod is pretty amusing. (god mods don't try to balance anything, they're just about the opposite of a balance mod, and usually just amplify BGS sloppiness).

The reload issue is separate, and IMO not related to balance. Balance usually means cost-benefit anolysis, understanding trade offs, and normalizing stats-- for items, skills, perks, etc. This way, all skills and items have some value, rather than the world being clearly divided into a lot of junk and a few gems.

One simple, random example would be daedric vs ebony. BGS just sets daedric to be better and calls it good. Balance mods might do something like make daedric do more damage and be more durable, but less enchantable than ebony. The result is that ebony becomes a viable choice thoughout the game, and no longer just a step on the path to daedric.
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Ellie English
 
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Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:47 pm

Post » Thu May 17, 2012 8:17 am

NPC's in general, enemies, the level scaling system, the skill system, the magic system, the difficulty; all of it is badly unbalanced and certainly needs a lot of work.
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Leonie Connor
 
Posts: 3434
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:18 pm

Post » Wed May 16, 2012 8:53 pm

I've seen dragons die to giants, mammoths, and ice trolls. Yeah their AI is kinda lame, but there's an easy fix:

* make dragons stronger than all other creatures!
* also, give dragons health regeneration. I think they're the only creature without it, and why??? Just so we can kill them more easily? If they had regen, they'd also be a lot less likely to die to whatever stray troll walks by

EDIT:

Also, horses are IMBA good. I want a mod that removes horses from combat (so the horse will neither attack nor be attacked)
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Marine Arrègle
 
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Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:19 am

Post » Wed May 16, 2012 10:09 pm

Argonians svck. I've always wanted to play Elder Scrolls as a dinosaur, but there's not enough diseases or underwater stuff in Skyrim for the Race abilities to help. Bonus-wise, they're weaker thieves than the Khajiit (and why wouldn't a dinosaur have as strong hand-to-hand skills as a cat?) and weaker mage-thieves than the Dunmer, leaving them almost no racial advantages whatsoever.

Suggestions:
- Hand-to-Hand bonus (a perk tree for this would dramatically improve game play in general, but that's another topic altogether)
- Bring back blade, alchemy, agility/athletic, illusion or mysticism bonuses from Oblivion.
- More diseases and water... this would probably be a little more difficult.
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Unstoppable Judge
 
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:22 pm

Post » Thu May 17, 2012 7:41 am

Argonians svck. I've always wanted to play Elder Scrolls as a dinosaur, but there's not enough diseases or underwater stuff in Skyrim for the Race abilities to help. Bonus-wise, they're weaker thieves than the Khajiit (and why wouldn't a dinosaur have as strong hand-to-hand skills as a cat?) and weaker mage-thieves than the Dunmer, leaving them almost no racial advantages whatsoever.

Suggestions:
- Hand-to-Hand bonus (a perk tree for this would dramatically improve game play in general, but that's another topic altogether)
- Bring back blade, alchemy, agility/athletic, illusion or mysticism bonuses from Oblivion.
- More diseases and water... this would probably be a little more difficult.

Dinosaurs, lol. I wish they at least gave Argonians a bonus to alchemy. Have to admit their racial power this time around is much better than in previous games, but they did seem to get screwed in other areas as you mentioned.
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Dawn Porter
 
Posts: 3449
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:17 am

Post » Thu May 17, 2012 1:30 am

There's a history of balance mods for TES games so you should take a look at them to get an idea about some of the assumptions and core ideas. OOO would be a good place to start, there's plenty of documentation and discussion.

My personal take is that balancing mods are created to make sense out of a jumble of poorly conceived noise. BGS stats tend to not be thought out so the idea that balance would be destroyed by a mod is pretty amusing. (god mods don't try to balance anything, they're just about the opposite of a balance mod, and usually just amplify BGS sloppiness).

The reload issue is separate, and IMO not related to balance. Balance usually means cost-benefit anolysis, understanding trade offs, and normalizing stats-- for items, skills, perks, etc. This way, all skills and items have some value, rather than the world being clearly divided into a lot of junk and a few gems.

One simple, random example would be daedric vs ebony. BGS just sets daedric to be better and calls it good. Balance mods might do something like make daedric do more damage and be more durable, but less enchantable than ebony. The result is that ebony becomes a viable choice thoughout the game, and no longer just a step on the path to daedric.

Well.. I am not going to install oblivion and play with and without OOO long enough to form an informed opinion.

And I am all in favor of real balance, but balance which eliminates non-optimized builds is not balance. And the conversations about balance are going to miss out on a lot of informed opinion if they use so much shorthand that only a few people can participate in the discussion.

That said, I took a peek in the spoilers forum, to see some of the fuss, and from my point of view a fix for the stuff they are doing there is relatively simple: put caps on bonuses from the effects of the three perk trees (the ones that get 100% skills plus multiple perks so they can multiply their effects) so that regardless of how you combine things you cannot exceed the bonus which you would get from any two trees without the third (or maybe cap the benefits closer to that which you would get from any one tree). Also there's a few bugs that should be fixed (for example, a certain potion which has an effect which has nothing to do with its described effect should probably only do its described effect). A variation would be to do this using diminishing returns rather than a hard cap.

But anyways my point could be restated to suggest that nerfing any one of those trees by itself, rather than nerfing how high you can get by combining them will unbalance builds that do not depend on that interaction.
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natalie mccormick
 
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Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:36 am

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