Hey, guys. Some of you might remember me from the Fo3., tech problems w/PS3 board. Man...I wish I could say it's nice to see you all again. Well, it is, but I wish it was under better circumstances.

Okay. The situation is we've got a new game with the same problems. Hey, we can work with this. Take a deep breath. This game just came out, so if we work quick on trying to isolate the problems we might speed the process on getting it patched. I'm going to need your help with this one.

Could some people please try playing the game under these certain conditions and please reply if you experience any freezing/locking/crashing while doing so.

1. If your PS3 is currently on, please shut it down normally (via the XBM till you ge the solid red-light). Wait 60 seconds, then turn it back on normally.
2. If your PS3 is online, please disconnect it's online ability during this testing. Using the XMB, go into "Network Settings" and select to turn off it's online abilities. This step could be nothing, but I'm also playing with the theory that PSN itself may be an issue.
3. Insert the Fo:NV disc, turn off the auto-save feature, fully install the game (if not done already), start a new game, and play normally. While it's okay to save manually, do not load a saved game after you start a new game.

And that's it. Using a freshly cleared cache with no online interferance, on a new (unbuged) game, with no cache overlaping, I suspect you'll see a much better running game with little to no freezing up to four hours of normal play.

When posting your results, please list what kind of PS3 you used and describe the problem you encountered, if any.

I know how frustrating this is. We've faced this beast before, and because of that we're better able to battle it. This time we've got Bethesda's interest, as this game just came out. Together we can beat this.

Thank you.

* - "XMB" is the "Cross Media Bar", the PS3's navigational system on it's start-up screen.

PS3 just FROZE UP(LOCKED UP) at the NCRCF Facility 5 minutes ago.When I was fighting POWDER GANGERS.I have the 250GB SLIM MODEL of the PS3.I had my internet turned on could have been the key factor but I had notifications turned off and display was up.So I am now into question.Is this my PS3,GPU, or just the game??Once again it crashed and this time I was only 30 minutes into the game.Unlike the previous time when I was 7+ hours into it.Strange well SYSTEM CRASH!!!!SYSTEM CRASH!!!!!!YEA!!!

I wish I knew, Courier. I'm sorry you're going through this, and I hope you stay with us in trying to find the problem.

There's a small percentage of PS3 users that are stating they are experiencing no problems whatsoever. I'm trying to currently get answers from them (peopel with no problems tend not to come back into forums for long) and trying here to test factors with the idea to isolate the causes. From there we might be able to speed up the process to get it patched as we'll be able to tell Beth where to look.

My theory as to PSN effecting Fo:NV is PSN "talks" to your HDD. Whether you have notifications turned on or not, it still connects with you HDD. THis doesn't effect most other games because most other games aren't heavily using your HDD like Fo3 or Fo:NV does. Both these games are almost constantly using your HDD.

How the PS3 conpensates for a game using the HDD at the same time as a request from PSN is it will fulfill the game's request first, then it will pause the game as it then fulfills the PSN request. This is why, in some games at some times, you will experience a pause and then see a notification at the exact time the game starts playing again.

PSN still goes into your HDD even though the notifications are turned off.

Where this can cause crashing is when the game in question trys to send to different files to your HDD consecutively, and PSN interrupts the process. For example, Fo:NV attempt to send two different files to your HDD, during the first one PSN tries to also access your HDD, your console compensates by "freezing" the game, finishing the game's 1st request, then finishing PSN's request, but when the console goes back to the game's second request, the game is now confused.

It thinks it already sent the request, as information was recieved, but being it's not the information it needs it continues to send a request, which causes the freezing. Or, what I think might be you're problem, PSN's activity stoped a file to get loaded properly, which is causing the freeze at that exact spot every time (the game is trying to find a file that isn't on your HDD, but it thinks it is because PSN downloaded something on your HDD during the time it was supposed to have recieved the needed file).

I ask that you start a new game and try the steps I requested. It might work. It might not. II only ask that you try.

i know for F3, i had to wait for the game to be fully installed on the HDD (the Game Data) to reduce the number of freezes and crashes. not sure if that will help as i don't have the FNV yet.

Hi Futzbucket,

First of all, thanks for being the voice of calm and reason in an otherwise rather frustrated forum. As a software developer, it's sometimes hard to make people understand that screaming about crashes and wailing at the developers accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I have a 120GB PS3 Slim running firmware 3.41. Fallout: New Vegas crashes (ie: the console becomes completely unresponsive, requiring a press on the power button to restart) at seemingly random times, usually after a few hours of gameplay.

I have been connected to the Internet during gameplay time but obviously not signed into PSN (because I haven't updated my firmware yet).

This evening, after work, I will start a new game with the Internet disabled, and post my results. I'm curious as to why the Internet would be causing game bugs, but I'm certainly willing to lend a hand as far as testing goes.

Apart from the complete lockups, the only bug / glitch I've experienced is a Gecko being stuck inside a rock.

I have a question: is there a 'full install' and a 'partial install'? Does the game 'fully install' when you pop the disc in and start playing the game normally, or is there some other way to do things that I'm not aware of?

PS: No, I do not have a hacked PS3, I'm just a lazy person who doesn't play newer games very often and ignores system update queries until a game insists on it.

If it's like F3, then I think FNV fully installs on your PS3's HDD. I don't know if it does a full install right off the bat or while you are playing the game. F3 installed while you played the game which can cause the frame rate to slow down and/or a corrupt Game Data file. I had to pause (hitting the start button) and waited for the HDD light to stop flickering before I started to play. For this reason, I asked above whether waiting for the game to fully install would help or not. It helped with F3 a bit.

Ah, I see. I haven't had to pause the game to let it 'catch up'. The Game Data entry in the PS3 menu says it's installed 4215Mb, so that sounds like a full install to me.

Thanks for the reply!

Futzbucket,

I apologize for the noob question, but......... was there an option to fully install Fo:NV? If there was, I must've missed it.

I admire your ethic here. What a shame it's necessary though.

Hmm. No option to install the game? They didn't add that then. I got my wires crossed.

The thing is I still haven't gotten the game. (boo, hiss) Yeah, yeah. I'll be getting it soon as a gift though.

The reason why I feel this can still be done is because these sound like the exact same problems with Fo3, even professional reviewers have stated that. If it is the same problem, then I know my method of keeping the cache clear will help on the PS3 dramticly. As least, I've never had a major problem with using it.

The internet worry is mostly a worry with PSN. The reason why I suggest turning off the internet from your console is because I suspect PSN still communicates with your HDD even if you're not signed in.

My theory began with a concept that this game and Fo3 were both play-tested. Being they both were released in this fashion, tells me the testers found nothing majorly worng. This, of course, is a direct contradiction to what we're finding.

So, how could this happen?

(continued)

(continued)

Easy. They weren't playing the game under the same conditions we are playing it. This explains why they're having such a hard time finding the problems. Whenever they go to play the game their way, it plays fine. They think we're exagerating.

This brings us to wonder what their conditions are.

Condition A
These people didn't have much time to test the game. They were handed a 150 hour game and was told to have it tested in a week. This would cause a person to "rush" through it. This means no reloading, and no backtracking. These people simply played the game and took what they could get. Adopting this into my own game in Fo3 took care of almsot all problems.

Condition B
The testers were probably all in the same room so to be monitored. Beth wouldn't have wanted any info leaked, so the testers were all put in a room and were given access to PC's, 360's, and PS3's. Oh, and you better believe not a single one of them had the slightest internet connection.

(continued)

(continued)

Condition C
Testers are employed. As such they are given the same rights of other kinds of employees. Specificly, they are given breaks. They probably took a small break every two hours, and one large break during their 8-hour shift. Before this break, they were probably told to save and shut-down their consoles.

So, in a nutshell the problem we're having (in theory) is a communication problem due to conflicting methods. Simply put, Beth doesn't test their games like a gamer.

I'm thinking if we model these conditions we'll discover the same thing Beth thinks; the game runs fine. Through this we will give Beth a good indication where to begin their patching the problems.

That way we can play the games the way they were meant to be played. Played by gamers.

To be honest... if that's how they tested the game, these guys need a lesson in effective QA. I'm not saying your scenario isn't likely... but it does not sound like something a company with a well-thought-out testing process should be doing.

So, how exactly am I asking you to play the game?

1. Start with your PS3 shut-down (red light). Allow it at least 60 seconds while off, then power it up normally. Turn off the internet. Insert the disc. Turn off the auto-save feature (this doesn't seem to make that much of a difference, but it's one less thing running on it's own). Start a new game.
2. While playing the new game, it is fine to manually save your game, but do not load a game unless you first power-down the console as stated above (give it 60 seconds).
3. Take breaks. Save and power down the console about every two hours. Go have a cigarette, a glass of water, use the bathroom, write someone a haiku, whatever. This will keep the cache clear and will help keep the console cool. During these breaks, allow at least ten minutes for the console to properly cool.

The third step will be the hardest for us. Hey, we're gamers. As such we marathon game. I hold the majority of bugs are caused by marathon gaming.

That's the catch. We're not talking about a livingroom.

These people had to sign their copy of the game in and out every time it came into their hands. If they wanted to use the bathroom, they had tosave the game, stop the game, eject the disc, shut down the console, return the disc to someone and sign it in, go use the bathroom, sign the disc back out, turn on the console, insert the disc, and reload their game.

They also most definitely weren't allowed to smoke, and proabbly wasn't allowed drinks and snacks.

The point I'm trying to make is these people probably took a break whenever they possibly could.

I agree with you... I just don't think that's the right way to conduct testing in 2010 for a multi-platform release.

Absolutly not. Beth doesn't have much choice though. We're talking Fo:NV, one of the most anticipated titles this year. No matter how honest a person going in is, you just know every one of them was itching to leak something, anything, to the outside. Playtesting is a crappy job, especially when you're playtesting a high-end game like this.

The only people that could've been trusted to test the game properly, meaning in a more casual setting, are the larger of the people involved. Unfortuantly these people are just too busy at that time to test their own game.

So, the very system they use to secure their product is the very factor that's ultimately causing their product to be released before it's trully ready.

To be fair, I wasn't there. All this is in theory.

Hi everyone!

So, I wanted to give Futzbucket's experiment a shot last night.

I left my PS3 off all day, turned it on around 5:30 PM, turned off the Internet connectivity (although I wasn't signed into PSN anyway), loaded up Fallout:NV.

Immediately turned off all 3 autosave features. I haven't taken the time to start a new game yet, BUT, I managed to play for over 4 hours with not a single crash. I also left the console on while I was having supper, so in total, it was a smooth ride from 5:30 until about 11:30, when I got ready to go to bed.

So far, this is all anectodal, but it looks like we may have a lead here. I would suggest that others try the same thing (turn off Internet/PSN + turn off autosave).

Futzbucket, when are you getting the game? Any plans? It would be nice if we could work together to validate the theory.

About 20 hours played, got one crash that i definned to be a bugged item which spawned twice with (perhaps duplicate item ID) regarding the way it acted.

I cant understand why i never had big problems with FO3 and it seems i wont be having problems with FO:NV either...

EDIT// I play with all auto saves on and use a PS3 Slim

Ok, its not quite the same thing, but very close. I've just tried this with F3 - disconnected from PSN and started playing straight from a 5 day shutdown. I'm level 30 and my game save file is 14MB, its pretty buggy right now. I set off from Megaton heading west to Jury St Metro - there is a small valley to the west of that where a random encounter spawns. My game freezes there almost every time. Sadly, I didn't make it that far - I've just crashed in a Mysterious Stranger VATS sequence a few metres away from the Jury St diner. I think I lasted about 15-20 minutes. Oh well....:shrug:

Throwing in my 2 cents here:

80GB Fat PS3 (Motorstorm bundle). I've had 1 lockup and that was after the system had been on for about 6-7 hours playing. I play with my internet connected, and I've received messages and gotten notices without issues. I've even paused the game, exited out, checked, and replied to a message without issue. I have auto saves turned on, and I have never cleared my cache.

Does the PS3 use virtual memory/swap space like a PC? If so, could free space on the HDD cause issues for some people?

I turned off my Internet connection and started a new game. So far I haven't crashed or run in to any problems

Playing on 120 gig ps3 slim. Internet connection turned on, so is auto save. I'm about 30h in and haven't experienced a single freeze. Worse I get is stuttering while travelling the mojave. By stuttering I mean that the game will lock up for a second or two before becoming responsive again. Other then that, here's a list of a few minor bugs.

- While wearing the brahmin skin outfit, with weapon holstered, zooming will cause white vertical stripes with a few inches in between them to appear on screen, zooming out makes them go away, however they are still present when zooming again.

- When exiting a location and entering the mojave, Random creatures fall from the sky and hit the ground dead. If one goes to try and loot the creature, it's marked as empty (this does not happen often)

- corrupted textures appear on the ground inside some houses (happened to me in goodsprings). a square section of the floor will have corrupted texture if I get to close, walking away makes it go back to normal

That's it for now, I''ll keep reporting these as they occur.

hello,

First of all, i have to say i am really upset about one game on ps3, wich is FNV ... i have a 60G fat PS3 (i have changed my HDD for a larger one) and it happens time to time that the PS3 freeze after 3 years of hardcoe using but it never happen to me that a game is "LAG" so offen that i think i play WOW in raid on my old PC . but anyway, if prog work on on the correction patch, it is ok for me..

So for help every one, i will tell my experience of the game.
-yesterday, the game was lagging for 5h every 10m like some here but i got no freeze of the PS3.
-today before the patch, Lag again, but still no freeze for 4 hour.
Today after the patch. Still Lag and a lot of freeze ... for 2 hours
Today after unplugged the net, A huge less Lag, and for the moment no freeze on 3 hours.

For me, it seems remonving the net has help (i do not have touch to auto save).
whishing next patch will removed the Lag issue

Alrighty,

First time I ran the game I noticed a significant amount of stuttering in the Mohave, especially during the initial tutorial portion when your killing the geckos. The stuttering made the game barely playable but far from enjoyable.

After reading this post by Futzbucket, I disabled notifications, internet and auto saves. Restarted the game and the stuttering, while still there, isn't nearly as bad. I've been playing for several hours and haven't experienced any lockup or crashes. I'm hoping my luck holds

Thanks be to Futzbucket for his calm demeanor and practical solution.

I'm running the game on a Fat 60gig PS3 with an upgraded 250 GB HD and with system software 3.50.