The 25% of people may be the individuals who haven't played long enough.

The point when Bethesda denied it was really early after the release. They had no way of knowing the full scale of the problem until more time progressed. Either way, they've made the fix (hopefully) and now it's Sony's task to test it out and then release it. Speeding up the process may cause other problems for ps3 users if anything is missed, particularly if this requires a full PS3 firmware release.

That article where Pete Hines stated "most users aren't experiencing these problems" went up on IGN 11/17, so I feel certain those comments came from Hines no earlier than 11/16. The patch was sent to Sony for certification on what date?

We were made aware of the patch being submitted on the 18th, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1278704-update-on-the-skyrim-12-patch/

Pete may have been responding to the data at the time which may have said that the problem was only affecting 25%. I'd wager that at the time he said that, the majority of the users hadn't capped the 20 hour mark yet. Still enough for it to be a problem though, so they went ahead and found the culprit and entered a fix.

But I have no reason to believe that Pete lied. They aren't dumb, it does not benefit a company to make false statements when it comes to PR. I fully believe that his comments were honest when tempered with the data he had at hand at the time. Honest, but wrong (the difference being intention here).

I don't know about you, but intention makes a big difference for me. Of course, it may have just been to encourage sales with the knowledge that they had a fix in the works and that the customers wouldn't have a problem come next Monday. But I really couldn't care less, they delivered the best game I've ever played. I just can't play it fully until the patch.

I'm taking him at his word as well. He also said in the same interview that they "were looking into it". I guess my point is that for there to be a fix in the upcoming patch, either one of two things is true:

1- They found and patched the issue in one day

2- They were already aware and were already working on a fix (which means Pete didn't know about the problem, but others at Bethesda did prior to launch, or he simply lied)

I'm not suggesting which scenario is true, but one of them is definitely true. Right?

Choice 1 sounds preposterous. Did they really not catch this in the three plus years they were working on the game? Did they really need everyone to buy the beta to fix the remaining gamebreaking bugs?

Well, I'm a software tester so I can give an educated guess.

The problem is something that happens on ps3's but not 360's or pcs. This indicates that the other versions had the proper coding and there was an accident/omission made in the PS3 version. Once they found the problem, it could be as easy as a copy/paste or just fixing the code to match the intended results that the same code has in the other versions.

I have ultimately figured out the problem (http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1284052-i-can-verify-the-problem-and-a-temporary-solution/), through testing it on my own machine. It seems to be a memory dump/refresh issue which could be simple.

The thing is, their testers and developers are very smart. Even if it was a complicated fix, they have enough resources to make a one-day turn around if pressed.

Additionally, they may have already been working on a fix without realizing the full extent of the problem. I've had times where I found a problem in our software (the company I work for) and have said the problem only to have the dev team say, "So what?" I then have to explain the ramifications and they their faces drop and they get right to work because the software would break.

So there you have it, a glimpse into testing/developing.

@Zidane: They may not have been working on the ps3 version specifically for those three years. Also, this error could have been introduced at any point of production before code lockdown. For all we know, their last entry caused the problem and it was just missed that one time.

That's actually a reasonable explanation. I've talked with friends who play the 360 and PC versions, both say loose items and dead bodies will disappear after a few in game days. This definitely does not happen in the PS3 version, which can be contributing to the problem if that code was broken during conversion or something.

I go a step further and say that it's not only contributing to the problem, but absolutely is the problem. It's why the file save size keeps going up. The ps3 remembers the location of all the bodies and objects without ever being able to forget them. So each 15kbs or so are an entire page containing a list of objects which the ps3 then has to dynamically remember so it can render them when called upon. A new town like Riften adds 300kbs instantly, for example, and the PS3 can't forget that.

Notice (in the thread I linked previously) that I've included my testing steps in Scientific Method format to allow for easily reproduced test results to verify the conclusion I came to. It doesn't take much work to see it's a correct assessment, pointing directly at or at least around the problem.

Why did they code stuff to remain longer in the PS3 version?

Haha, I'd rather not say. That post made the developers sound like they're idiots when in actuality they're great engineers that do great work. I just happened to point out the few times where I got them good.

Truth be told, they've taught me most everything I know about computers and it was only because of that that I became good at testing to the point where I could come to intuitive conclusions.


That would make it a project management issue.

The thing is though, once code lockdown was complete, they kept testing (hence patch 1.1). Also, there's all that time from the code being locked down to it being shipped to stores early to be ready for sale on the 11th. The problem could have been project design. Anything from testing on suped up systems that normal users don't have to compartmentalizing the testing areas so much that no one tester got very high in file size.

Either way, there was a testing error made, the only question we have is "why".


They didn't. What they wanted was the exact same game on each version. When they converted over the code from standard microsoft coding to the ps3 coding framework, a mistake (code that works with MS machines but not Sony coding) or omission was made that caused the version to differ from the others. This was not intended.

It is absolutely necessary to fix that problem. They need to reset after 72 hours ingame.

So how many people just spam voted over and over again? Be honest.

I'm sure some did, I'm sure as well there were PC and 360 users that voted as well. But even if they did spam a ton of votes, say 25 percent worth it still means that half the people who bought the game can't play it.

I can't think of any other company where this would be accepted like it has been here. If Halo Reach or Resistance 3 or Deus Ex:HR were released in a similar state and half the people playing suddenly couldn't finish the game those companies would be lynched.

This game isn't halo, resistance 3, or Dues Ex:HR, all great games, but literally not half the complexity of Skyrim.

Def have to wonder what the companies DEFINITION of RIGOROUS is. Is it? is it the Game and console is pushed to the limit like how Addicted gamers play it? Cause it sure as hell doesnt seem like it. :[ idc if they got top of the end performance machiens man, obviously they should play it based off the standard consumers hardware/software (doi a simple stock ps3), this is real fail for the concept designers. Assuming everyones got top of the end machines real piss off. I cant even play the dam game anymore

Regardless of how "unscientific" the poll is, if you put up the same poll for say MW3 or Uncharted 3 etc. I guarantee you would not get those results. Bethesda knows this. They aren't stupid. They need to start handling this better, like say apologizing and offering FREE DLC to all PS3 users or something to compensate. They really are lucky people aren't bringing lawsuits at this point.

That's not my point. This has nothing to do with complexity. This has to do with not robbing customers and the reactions other major titles and developers would have gotten had they done something similar.

Most games only have around 20 hours of content or less. Even with this tremendous bug, there's already more content than most games but for the same price. Remind me again how that's robbing?

I appreciate what you're saying there, but at the end of the day, no matter its complexity Bethesda are still obliged to put out a working product if they're going to expect gamers to cough up ￡43/$60 for it.

What state would the industry be in if developers and publishers were allowed to keep putting out [censored], broken games, then we - the consumer - forgive them because 'come on guys, it's haaaard'.

As it is, Skyrim should be a better game than all 3 of those combined. As it stands now, I know at least 2 of those are better games because I've been able to actually sit down and play them as they were intended, without being penalized for maybe liking it more than the developers thought they could get away with.

So to be clear your argument is that a broken product is better than a working product so long as that broken product is larger or contains more of something than its competition? So you would happily buy a truck with 4WD that doesn't run over a truck without 4WD that does run? You would happily purchase 1080p HD television that doesn't have a working picture over a 720p HD television that functions properly?

I just want to be clear on that before I answer your question.

^ o yah.

Argument = fail. lol

Lol.

On another note.. i find it funny that beth is working on "dishonered"
I bet its about people who bought skyrim for ps3.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1287807-gamesradar-and-ign-are-all-over-this/page__pid__19427730#entry19427730

And.. beforementioned thread is now locked.
That just proofs beth doesnt like us nor bad public opinions.
At least a mod is active, there are so many treads he should have moderated but didnt.

Ok.. from now on ill only visit this site from my pc... My phone not likey it.