question number 1.

after watching the Goonies movie i noticed that the Thieves Den reminded me a lot of the last part of the movie. any ways i was thinking it is said that the Altmer have the best navy and that the the Legion also has a navy. so after reading the journals in the thieves den i was wondering. since gun powder has not been invented yet how does naval combat work? do they have mages assigned to each ship for ship to ship attacks? they probably have boarding parties once the ship get close enough. so i want to know is how they fight ship to ship.

question number 2.

do u think that Beth took ideas from Greek Myth about Prometheus and use it for Lorkhan. they seem to share some of the same qualities. both trick they respected god-brethren. one steals fire to give to man the other "creates" mortal realm. both are punished for their "crimes" one is bound to a mountain and has his entrails eaten by birds the other has his heart ripped out. what are your thought on this?

I think the Redguards at least have gunpowder and cannons, but I don't think the concept survived into "Morrowind" and "Oblivion". The loremasters on this forum will know more than I about this. I assume the ships have ballistae as well as battlemages.

I've thought before that Lorkhan is similar to Prometheus too. Lorkhan is a culture hero like Coyote, a trickster god like Loki. MK seems very knowledgeable about comparative religion and mythology, so he probably wrote Lorkhan to be in this tradition. (He's forgotten more about mythology than I'll ever know.)

Mages would be a good idea and probably so practical that it would be unheard of not to have one. A'Tor has a wizard aboard his ship in the Redguard intro (in a culture not favourably disposed to most forms of magic), but what he actually does besides attempt to save the prince's life isn't described. Fireballs are probably a safe assumption.

Without magic, boarding and ramming are probably safe assumptions too. But I'm not so sure there aren't cannons around, even if we haven't seen them.


Maybe, maybe not. Greek mythology doesn't seem any more obvious a guess than any number of other similar myths. The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge, on the other hand, seems an obvious allusion in the Heart of the World myth, since there's few religions who see the world as a prison and the creator as a misguided liar.

Why was the Sentinel army so useless during the War of Betony?

The cannons were too heavy, so all three garbage scows sunk.http://www.imperial-library.info/dfbooks/b070_jokes.shtml

:frog:

Apparently, they have cannons but no firearms... Tehe.

Yeah, I know, but I'm not sure a throwaway line in a Daggerfall jokebook is really a good reflection of the state of technology post-Oblivion.

You blow up a few barrels of gunpowder in Redguard.

You'd figure with fireballs and fire arrows so readily available, they would have larger rowing crews.

I suspect cannons exist, and are used at sea (certainly on the Illiac Bay). However, given the easy access to magic based personal weapons (staves, rings, etc.) I suspect there isn't much of a market for gunpowder based personal weapons. Cannonballs are nice for sinking ships, destroying walls, etc. (particularly given magic doesn't seem to have the ability to destroy anything other than living tissue. ), but beyond this, I suspect its utility is limited.

In addition think of what happens when that fire ball destroys the living tissue of the gunpowder carrying fella next to you. Instant boom. Guns in our world were invented because we dont have magic (anymore). Shield spells would probley nullify bullets anyway. Im not saying they dont have a place in a magical setting (see the movie Wizards) but long term...no.

Given that Cap'n Dougal did not use mages, I suspect that he probably used cannons. Dozens of ships sank in that battle, and he only seemed to notice mages when they dropped the cliff on his ship.

Funny you should mention that actually, because I thought the same thing. Anyway,



I think that the ideas for Lorkhan were taken from a few different sources, with the story of Prometheus being one of the bigger contributors. The idea of a "trickster" god isn't an uncommon one, in fact, it's one of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickster_god#Archetype

Prometheus gave more than fire to mankind, right? I'm getting this vague feeling some of that generous quality rubbed onto one of the gods besides Lorkhan.

Cannons are pretty worthless for sinking ships. Ramming would be the order of the day, besides boarding.

The Nords seem pretty Norse in nautical matters, with simple vessels that are useful for long journeys but not fighting. The Dunmer could be bluewater sailors as well, as their lugsail rig looks similar to seaworthy asian junks. The Imperials have some rudimentary square rigs, and still look rather medieval at sea- cogs and caravels. The redguards have vaguely north african vessels, and I speculate that they use xebecs or similar vessels, which are essentially galleys with sails. The Altmer are anyone's guess, but being elves I'd guess they'd use anything with a lanteen sail just because it's elegant. The Maomer of Pyandonea used to have the most powerful fleets in history, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was mostly giant turtles.

You like your ships then, huh paws?:P

You have no idea how much jargon-restraint that post required.

Brevity is the soul of wit!

Yeah, they're pretty useless. It's almost impossible to accurately launch cannons towards enemy ships.

Cannonballs, on the other hand, are pretty useful.

Funny. But not so much. Even during the era where black powder muzzle loaders saw their greatest level of development and use, sinking enemy ships was unusual and not even a primary goal.

It's common sense, really. Firing randomly at a large timber object doesn't cause it to magically fill with water.

Well, if the Redgaurds had developed cannons then handguns would have naturally come with it, so they probably just use ballistae, catapults, or rams.

If not any of those than probably boarding parties. Just use your imagination.

But shooting holes in it does. But you're probably right, although ballistae would be useful in this case. Especially if the bolt is on fire. But I've yet to see a TES ship with a prow that could be reasonably used for sinking ships.

Heh, you'd want to CAPTURE a ship in Tamriel, considering that theres only 5 operable ships in the capital province.

Unless there were some in Daggerfall, only Redguard had any warships, and I could make better models given 2 hours and half a blender tutorial.

Rams would be at or below the waterline, or course, but I don't think they were much used on large ships, barring tiremes.

I don't know if the Black Flag would have counted as a warship, and I don't think so, but I think that it would have had some ability to sink other ships, given its participation in the battle. Although it was certainly more meant for boarding, being a pirate ship.

Oblivion's ships were silly little fantasy galleons. I'm looking at Redguard walkthrough videos right now, and looking for some useful equivalent vessels from history.

The Restless League favored craft like these: http://potbs.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Algiers_xebec.jpg

Some of the naval vessels look like larger versions of this one here: http://potbs.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Otter_Skuda.jpg

What makes you think that? They seem good enough for me.