First let me start with an entirely positive note. I love the game. I love the changes and the continuity both. I love the myriad storyline options. There is however a problem and I am hoping that it is something that will be correctable with a downloadable patch. Vats targeting is buggy in this release. To be specific I was at Walking Box Cavern and armed with a laser rifle with which i targeted the onrushing horde of Nightstalkers. My hit chance was 95% to any target on of the creatures. I was capable of firing 5 shots with my available AP. My weapon was more than sufficient to bypass any DR they had.( I have living anatomy) None of my shots landed before they engaged me in melee, which is another issue with VATS as 95 percent chances of success often miss here too when the gun goes through their bodies... Anyway, I reloaded 5 times as hitting them in melee was particularily problematic with a laser weapon and the Meltdown perk...I exploded a lot...back to the point 95 percent chance of success x 5 shots before being engaged in mellee x 5 reloads=25 misses with a 95% chance to hit...in a row...it doesn't happen all the time but it shouldn't happen ever....I suspect it's an issue with packs of fast moving targets mainly that trips the issue...I hope this can be resolved. It would make a great game even better. Thanks

95% isn't 100%.

I think they adjusted the slow motion aspect of VATS. I have no proof but it certainly seems that way. Enemies seem to cover much more ground during VATS than in FO3. Once they are on top of you it doesn't seem to matter what the VATS percentage is, you just miss.

Like Leharic said, even with 95% there will be times when you have a run of the numbers not being in your favor. I can tell many a story about times I was 99 or 98% to win a hand in Hold 'em and have it not work out, a few times they happened within a few hands of each other. It's just the way odds work, we have to pay for the times when we go on an awesome run somehow.

As for the issue with the missing with the gun sticking through them, I have noticed that and it's occasionally annoying, but it does make sense (I think it's unintentional though and might only make sense to me). For the sake of argument say you have a rifle that's 36 inches long. If you are getting attacked by a Nightstalker that is biting you, there really isn't much chance of you shooting that thing in the head or anywhere further forward than the back third of it. Unless you got really tricky with the way you held the rifle and that would affect you accuracy. Also you have things lunging into you and that would rock you around, messing up accuracy again. I have always been kind of bothered by the 95% when the baddie is smashing you, I would expect a drop with a rifle (potentially to zero if it's a long gun and a smaller opponent) and with a handgun as well, do to the fact you're getting whacked with a machete (or something). Isn't that a point of sidearms, when something is too close you switch to that?

They did speed up the speed at which baddies move in VATS. I learned never throw more than on stick of dynamite in it at a time because those dudes and medium range will be on top of you by the time you light the second one.

There seriously needs to be a way to cancel out of VATS mid-attack; moreso for this reason, but I hate when it looks like you have a clear shot only to be emptying your rounds into a wall or rock...

Personally I have encountered this problem, I do believe its a bug, but however, not in the way you describe it, sometimes when I have damaged limbs (espeacilly on my arms) my chances to hit dramatically decrease, saying that, sometimes in VATS (when i have damaged limbs) my VATS chance still says 95% and when I shoot It epically fails and in waste ammo :bonk: (I play hardcoe so ammo is an issue for me) , due to the fact that the game is lyeing to me :glare:

You were fighting those nightstalkers. You will miss every shot regardless of what VATS says.

0% isn't 95% either... 95% means that 19 of 20 shots will HIT the target.

That's not how statistics work. There's no sureity. 95% means that the mean to be expected is 19 out of 20. But that does not mean 19 out of every 20. Outliers can and will occur.

That would be a guarantee. Odds mean you can anticipate that 95% will hit, but it is not guaranteed.

Yes, outliers will happen. But I should Average 19 out of 20 hits. It is absolutely clear that I am not averaging anywhere near that #. 50% at best. So something is clearly off in VATS

I would like to direct you to my earlier post, first off. There's a particular group of Nightstalkers where you will miss every shot in VATS. Seems a bug.

Second, that's still not how statistics work. You can expect to have that mean given that probability, but it is not a certainty.

I like how this topic started as a simple glitch question to mathmatical statistics :violin:

I'm tending towards the view that VATS is gimped.

The issue with close enemies unable to be targetted when they are right on top of you makes sense, and the solution is to put ground between you and them - don't use all your possible shots in one VATS session, but take one or two shots as they close, backpedal, another VATS shot, repeat. You should change guns from your longarms down to your handgun/s once things look like they will reach you. Even in real life, combat tactics (for law enforcement) stress that safety depends on distance and obstacles between you and the threat. And I can personally vouch that once the threat is on top of you, you won't get an accurate shot off, if you can even fire....you're too busy trying to use your handgun as a hammer. The general rule is if they are 20 metres or so from you, they will reach you before they drop, erring on the side of caution.

Accuracy in FNV VATS is problematic. In F3 (seeing it introduced VATS), someone with high Small Guns or Energy Weapons skills, high agility, appropriate weapons and gear, etc, could use VATS to become the ultimate killing machine in the wastelands - it gave those players an almost omnipotent advantage. Although you could get a few misses, with the right weapon it was ultimately lethal. In FNV, on the other hand, it seems gimped out of proportion...accuracy is not reflective of skill, weapon condition, bonuses, etc, shots disappear, and the bad guys do move a lot faster.

I recall somewhere reading in the pre-release media blurbs that VATS had been re-jigged. I can't remember where, but from that I assume that the developers are pandering to the players who prefer the FPS style, and consequently they have dumbed VATS down, which is a shame, because VATS is what made F3 somewhat special - it wasn't just a run and gun experience, you got some cool cinematics, and you could create a 'larger than life' character who was deadly.

Well i've had times when i was 6% to hit and always hit spot on, other times i get 95% and i get [censored] all.

I get the feeling the number are a lie too.
Too often I've had what must be lucky streaks when low % was showing.
It doesnt help that rarely mobs seem to glitch and take zero damage from a full clip :/

To those citing statistics consider that at some point if your stat does not reflect the reality it is likely(statistically) wrong and should be reworked. No, 95% is not 100% but if i reproduce this on a long enough string and 25 times at 95% is plenty long enough I assure you(do the math if you don't believe me) then it is simply not 95%. That being said it is I suspect an entirely seperate issue. The "lurking variable" here is that these mobs are fast moving and a pack. Vats is shooting were they no longer are based upon the trajectory of the shots. That is the reason for the misses. To refine it further, some of the shoots are not hitting the target due to obstructions that were not there during target acquisition( a flaw IMO as there is literally no point in VATS in these scenarios if you cant actually choose your target) and not hitting the target as the character is not tracking the target. To the issue of real world...first, video game but second so as not to be trite because the realism of the game is something we all appreciate VATS is vault assisted targetting system a cybernetic enhancement essentially to assist in combat scenarios enhancing an already superior? individual(dont get hung up here, i suspect the game lvls as you do for the most part like Oblivion, your superior because your you, the hero) with a deliberate combat and inventory management system in the form of an advanced personal computer. Also IMO the VATS system should be indicating possible shots....if you can enter 2,3, or 4 shots in VATS with indicated success that is what you should get...is the computers calculation of vector off? Because if so its not an enhancement, it s a liability. I guess my point really is its a glitch, there is no reasonable arguement to the contrary and I would like it addressed. Please and thank you. A last point being that if VATS is to remain buggy those high lvl VATS perks are a great deal less attractive and those that want a great FPS feel as someone mentioned...don't use VATS...you have that option inherently....I am honestly confused that needs stateing.

p.s. Bomfy if a nightstalker was attempting to bite me and i had a rifle in my hands assuming of course that they got to me...vats allows them to run up on me from a considerable distance before i can pull the trigger the four times that my agility warrants(flaw, trigger pulling is a simpler faster action than moving ones entire leg multiple times) I would likely attempt to put the rifle in its mouth and pull the trigger...not an exceptionally difficult proposition considering how wide it opens hit chance 100% assuming it goes in..mind you it doesn't need to go in its mouth putting a rifle to someones head chest back leg whatever is quite effective.