Does anyone else prefer the default levelling system? : IV - Oblivion

» Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:29 pm

All this talk of the Realistic Levelling mod has made me download it. Going to have to try it out tomorrow I think, with a new character starting from the exit of the dungeon, i'll keep my old character on the default levelling system.

I think if you want to simply beat the game, and be the best that the game can offer, the default levelling system suits, because, if your not bothered about how your character looks, or act's then repeatedly doing actions over and over again to level up won't matter.

I've never tried efficient levelling on any of my other characters, and don't intend to. What's the point? Surely efficient levelling only comes into play if you have major's like speechcraft and mercantile? My other characters have always been strong enough to tackle the higher level creatures. It's not like your levelling at a much slower rate than the enemies, your increasing at the same. A good restoration spell mixed in with some paralyzeing and shock, plus a few strikes with a sword surely shoulden't be that hard, or are people not wanting a challenge? People bleet on about roleplaying over and over again, but what's the point in playing the game, if your actually not playing it realistically, your going to die sometimes, it's a game, it doesent have a purpose if it's not challenging does it.

I fully understand using other levelling mods when roleplaying, because of how the default levelling system works, you can't effectively roleplay well, without looking daft, so I do understand this. I do think it depends what you want to roleplay though. My only roleplaying character, an alchemist, is highly skilled in Alchemy, but nothing in anything else, using the default levelling system. This is realistic though isn't it? An alchemist is hardly going to be the strongest with a blade.

But, im going have to check out this realistic levelling mod, but I need some more roleplaying ideas!

» Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:01 pm

Not nearly so much experience as Gpstr, but this is pretty much where I stand too. I only tried Realistic Levelling briefly, might have installed one other one very briefly. I keep playing with Vanilla Levelling.

The system has its flaws, but I've come to the conclusion that it is actually less random and poorly thought-out than is sometimes argued. From my perspective, I think the main problems with the vanilla leveling are as follows:

1) The game rewards me for tedious repetitive actions that some how just don't make sense. Sure, doing math problems all day might increase might math ability, but could I just do that to become a Master Mathmetician? Likewise, it just doesn't make total sense that I can effectively become a Master Illusionist or Restorationist or Alterationist simply by casing Starlight, Heal, or Protect repeatedly for days on end. This to me is the most egregious problem in the system in that it breaks immersion and makes it the expeience feel "gamey" instead of fascinating. True, if a player feels this way, he could just not do it, but then where is the boundary? If I cast Heal one extra time after a battle is that overstepping it? What about if my character starts his day by casting a nice refreshing Fortify Fatigue spell, does that constitute an action somewhere in the grey area between gameyness/clever strategy/roleplaying? It behooves the designer to anticipate precisely these patterns of player behavior and to include simple game mechanics that prevent the breakdown of immersion, not by requiring a player to voluntarily avoid 'cheating' but simply making it costly, impractical, or unappealing from a story standpoint. Not knowing the engine, I have no idea if it would've been simple to do, but ideas that come to me for how this could've been implemented: the background maths keep track of how often you use a skill within a given span of time, and simply award you diminishing experience as you do it more and more repetitively in a short span of time. Ideally, the engine would calculate if casting a particular spell were being done "under fire" and award full XP in those instances, but diminishing XP when it is being overused in practice sessions. Granted, most of the solutions start to seem pretty complex, let alone considering how complicated it might be to code them, but that is my take on that point.

2. Super-powered Goblins are as already said, annoying.

3. I never play with the standard classes, and do find that having an "area" (Combat, Magic, Stealth) of focus as well as the attribute specs makes pretty good sense from the standpoint of a more-or-less "classless" rpg system. I agree that a less-class-rigid system is the way to go, but I don't find the restrictions of the "class" system to be that annoying as long as I use custom classes.

4. Levelling up too fast as a result of actually USING your Majors, and thus be prevented from being a generalist. Given the game portrays the protagonist as a lone adventurer, this to me is a somewhat incongruous structure, though I can understand if they made it this way to make it approachable for the general consumer public. The resulting consequence for those who want to play a genealist with vanilla = Playing a Magic user with Majors like "Blunt, Heavy Armor, Armorer, Marksman, etc." is certainly workable but again, breaks immersion and the roleplay aura.

Other than that I think Vanilla leveling works fine.

1. Ask any bodybuilder if repetition makes a difference or not. My characters rarely spam a skill but when they do I see it as the equivalent of going to a gym. I've had characters that liked to spam spells they were already a master of simply because they liked the smoke and the sparkles.

2. Agreed.

3. I think the standard classes just point out the options for people who aren't sure where to begin. Creating a custom class is best used like Acadian used it to intentionally limit the whole leveling process and create a 'glass cannon' (an extremely vulnerable but deadly little skinny blond Bosmer bowgirl.)

4. Rapidly leveling up within your class does not prevent you from generalizing at high levels. A mage can still become a master of heavy armor or Marksmanship. It's just means that you likely won't get a high boost to endurance or agility Unless you are still advancing as a mage. My mages typically get armorer training so as to repair their staff if it is damaged by a 'Deteriorate-Weapon' spell. That gives them good endurance at an early stage and is a sensible move so that it doesn't break immersion.

Once any attribute reaches 100% the leveling system no longer matters with respect to that attribute. A little training and practive in various skills as your character advances can assure a ballanced character if that's what you want.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:26 am

1. Ask any bodybuilder if repetition makes a difference or not. My characters rarely spam a skill but when they do I see it as the equivalent of going to a gym. I've had characters that liked to spam spells they were already a master of simply because they liked the smoke and the sparkles.

To continue your body building anology, I think his point was more along the lines of all the bicep curls in the world won't do anything for your calves. It doesn't make much sense that you can master an entire school of magic by only ever casting one spell.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:35 am

To continue your body building anology, I think his point was more along the lines of all the bicep curls in the world won't do anything for your calves. It doesn't make much sense that you can master an entire school of magic by only ever casting one spell.

It's a good point but I see spell casting as more akin to singing. Once you develop the skill, all you need is to learn the new words and melody. You may have to work on those high notes first though.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:16 am

1. Ask any bodybuilder if repetition makes a difference or not. My characters rarely spam a skill but when they do I see it as the equivalent of going to a gym. I've had characters that liked to spam spells they were already a master of simply because they liked the smoke and the sparkles....

To continue your body building anology, I think his point was more along the lines of all the bicep curls in the world won't do anything for your calves. It doesn't make much sense that you can master an entire school of magic by only ever casting one spell.

Casting all the Illusion spells in the world won't do anything for your Mysticism skill.