Another article I wrote: http://j-u-i-c-e.hubpages.com/_esforum/hub/Class-Balance-and-Archetypes-in-RPGs.

The title is pretty self-explanatory. It's a long read (over 4000 words), so get yourself a drink and settle down.

Please read the article before replying.

I'm not interested in starting pointless arguments, but I am interested in serious discussion. The article isn't supposed to be the 'be all and end all' of the topic. I'm still learning about game design myself, so I'd love to hear other people's ideas. I learned a lot from the replies that people were courteous enough to leave me on my other threads and I'd like to repeat that here.

The article was inspired by the innumerable complaints that people have made in these forums about the imbalance between various skill trees: Destruction, crafting, and stealth skills in particular.

TES games aren't inherently about balance, they are about imbalance. The only notable exception might be Oblivion with its deeply flawed scaling system, where at 30+ you would grow progressively less powerful with each level. (Skyrim has scaling, but it is less psychopathic and seems to stop at 50ish...the endgame of 70+ is much more like Morrowind or Daggerfall where you'll just wade through opponents of any powers using 1-2 seconds to quickly dispatch them, and gear is almost inconsequential.

Thus it isn't really about equaling skills, it is about making combinations that players can find and unlock to find huge amounts of power... if they want to. It's also awesome to see they're back on the "greed means power" theme they had in pre-Oblivion games. Nice guys get the reward of doing the right thing. Bad guys get murderous weaponry and tons of coins. Choice in this game actually has a consequence and is not just a matter of choosing the red or the blue lightsabre. Again... there is no balance, there is imbalance.

I like that... it means it matters what you choose, it matters what kind of character you want to play and it means you have to think.

....which is why i prefer class-based RPGs :celebration: .

the only game i can think of that really got "classless" right was maybe dues ex. in addition to combat there was non-lethal combat, stealth, electronic-based, and conversation based paths of progression. the advantage of personality was what you would expect; being smooth and approachable, not offsetting the hostility of an enemy so much that nobody attacks you. the skill was useful and effective without making combatants look ineffective

i see what you mean... at a certain level, balance has to be achieved through a less mathematical sense of fulfillment . the game has to be built to accomadate all these different ways of playing instead of trying to force every kind of skill into a combat role. utility has to have its own path and rewards.