Was a bit disappointed with the questline.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the concept of it, the cursed werewolves, the secrecy of the circle - I just felt it was executed poorly.

The radiant quests played a large part in that - go fetch item x at ruin y, go kill target x at fort y

If you look at the fighter's guild quests of Oblivion, the basis of them seems the same but there is just so much more character to them. For example the first quest for the Fighter's Guild - A Rat Problem, was not only intriguing but had an element of comedy to it as well as interesting characters and motives. What did I get for the Companions?

'go beat Hulda up at Whiterun Tavern'

Now, whilst I enjoy watching my heavily-muscled Nord character pummel old women into submission as much as the next man, I think something was lost in the transition here.

What happened to the quest depth Bethesda?

The ending too? Won't spoil it but it's a bit of anti-climix in my view.

I think Bethesda were so concerned about the innovation of the 'radiant' system that they forgot to balance it and flesh it out with quest quality and depth.

Obviously, I'm sure this point would have been raised before, just wanted to put my two cents in.

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I will move this now.

Can I just ask what spoilers I have revealed here?

I thought the Companions was easily the weakest of the four guild quest-lines. As you pointed out, most of the quests had no character. It's a shame, because I really liked the feel of Jorrvaskyr, and most of the Companions as characters. It was a good set-up, what with the curse, but if you compare the story's execution to any of the other guild (the Thieve's Guild especially), then it just seems so weak...Maybe even gimmicky.

I felt the same, I loved the hall of Jorrvaskr and the funeral of Kodlak (might as well reveal that since it's been moved, which I think is absolutely fudging ridiculous) was a good moment I suppose.

But I think the problem lay in the fact they revealed the werewolf side to it too early. I mean you find out about it around second quest, and then you are one by the third/fourth. I think they could have fleshed out the mystery a bit more.

I love the Companions but do think the main storyline gets advanced too quickly. In the guide it says, regarding the first job you get from Farkas after joining, that this is the start of the Companions radiant quests and you must complete at least one before you get the next quest in the main storyline. It makes it sound like you could do more, maybe infinite, radiant quests before going on the one that results in you being officially inducted into the faction. But somehow I always end up doing the one initial radiant job and then *boom* the next time I go in there for work I'm rolled right into the Proving Honor quest. I wonder if it's the same with other quests in the main storyline, that I could do more radiant quests before getting into the whole thing with the Circle and the Silver Hand, nevertheless it seems like when I try that, I'm always turned down for other smaller jobs because Aela/Skjor/whoever has something for me, which leads me right back to the main storyline. Maybe I'm just not talking to the right Companions at the right time or something, I dunno. I would love to do a lot more "normal" jobs in order to prove myself (and up my skills) before being thrown headlong into the midst of their internal wranglings over the beast blood and the curse and all of that.

I hated the fact that after a short main questline you were left with an unending amount of radiant quests which you could never remove from your questlog (I always have a misc quest called "speak to companions leaders for more work" which renews every time I complete a radiant quest for them). You are also their leader yet most of the stuff for me in Jorvasskyr is still classed as "owned" and therefore counts as stealing if you take it (exception being Kodlaks area, his old bedroom and the chamber before it). There are also no secure storages areas there for the player.

^ All this aggravtes me as well. I like a clean journal, and why on earth isn't everthying in Jorrvaskr mine for the taking? And don't even get me started on the werewolf aspect.

Man, I miss the Fighters' Guild.

The Harbinger isn't really the leader of the Companions, that's made clear through dialogue. Kodlak doesn't own or rule over Jorvasskr or the other Companions, so I wouldn't expect to have free access to everything in there when I take over his spot. The stuff he personally owned, yeah, the presumption being that he left me those things when he died the same way he left me his position of Harbinger. Their ownership passed to me as did the right to sleep in the now vacant living space. Wasn't aware there was no safe storage in there, though, which does seem odd. I've always bought a house of my own by that point so never really lived there or used it for storage.

I don't mind the lingering journal entry, if only because it's a reminder that I'm still a Companion and there is still work there that can be done if I so desire. As long as there are still quests available I don't have a problem with it, even after I'm Harbinger, because as Harbinger it seems like talking to the other members of the Circle about "work" would be a part of my duties even if I have to imagine that it's not just about taking piddly jobs and doing them all myself. If you took the option of continuing unlimited radiant quests away once you became Harbinger it would probably tick off the people who still want to do those jobs for XP or coin or just for the lulz.

Personally I would just like to be able to do a lot more of them before I get to the top of the ladder, but if that's possible I haven't yet figured out how.

One, it's barely a spoiler. That's like saying 'has wizards in it' spoils Harry Potter.

Two, as said, you find out about it second quest.

Onto the main point however, when Skjor and Kodlak died I didn't feel attached to them at all due to the short-lived nature of the companion questline. They needed to develop the characters more.

You didn't say "Skyrim has werewolves in it", you said "the Companions are werewolves"--big difference. And it might occur early on in their quest line, but it's a non-linear game. Some people could play over 100 hours before they found out their secret, or never find out at all.

More like they were banking too heavily on Radiant Story to control the questlines, that when it fell apart they didn't have the time for proper hand-written questlines. All the guilds are this way. The length and story quality of Skyrim's guild questlines pale in comparison to Oblivion's.

Something also that helped the quests in Oblivion was that you had to travel around for them. If you didn't use fast travel, it helped increase the investment time because it would take longer to get and fulfill quests. Do quests for the Chorrol guild hall, then you'd be sent over to Cheydinhall to do their quests. Then you'd be sent to Anvil to do their quests, etc. All the while you're exploring new areas, meeting new people, finding new stuff, getting sidetracked, etc. In Skyrim, you just keep going back and forth between the guild's "home base" and the target of the day, so when you finished one quest, you'd meet up with the same people and jump right into the next quest.

I agree. I love Jorrvaskr, I think the Companions has lots of interesting characters, and the werewolf plot, how it divides them and so on, could have been so much more. But I could live with that.

What's really ridiculous is how fast they let you - a total stranger - into the Circle. I mean, this was the beginning of the questline for me:
1. Trouble in Skyrim: clearing out some bandits.
2. Proving Honor
3. Trouble in Skyrim: kill a spriggan.
4. The Silver Hand.

I can understand why Njada and Athis goes around making snarky remarks. Here they have worked and trained, and then I suddenly swoosh in, become the leader's new BFF and a few quests later I'm suddenly harbinger.

It would be so easy to make the questline a little longer. Just make sure the player has to do , say, four or five radiant quests, or at least one radiant for each leader, until you proceed with the next step in the main questline.

(then a thing I personally miss when you become the leader of any guild, is to be able to hand out jobs to others - "hey, Njada, Farkas told me about this intimidation job - why don't you take it? You'd do great!")

I agree that having more actual power as a guild leader would be great, but if you started managing and giving quests to the NPCs... there'd have to be a way to keep track of whether the jobs actually got done, the NPCs would have to be set up to go and actually DO them otherwise what's the point of being able to give orders? Lol.

What would be nice IMO is if when you talk to the Companions "leaders" for work, instead of saying "I'm looking for work" you could ask if any new jobs have come in, and then when the Companion tells you about whatever radiant quest the game just generated for him/her to offer you, you would have options like the following:

1. "Sounds like something I should handle myself." -> Companion defers to your judgment and asks you to let him/her know how it goes. -> You do job, report back, collect your portion of the payment, quest updates to finished in your journal.

2. "I'll need you to take care of that for us." -> Companion defers to your judgment and says he'll get it done.. -> Quest updates to finished in your journal.

3. "Sounds interesting, who did you have in mind for the job?" -> Companion says "I haven't decided. Who do you suggest, Harbinger?" -> You choose from list of Njada/Ria/Athis/whoever/etc. -> Companion agrees with your choice and says he will speak to them -> Quest updates to finished in your journal.

Something like that would make it seem like you are actually the Harbinger discussing things with the rest of the Circle and advising them, which is what the Harbinger is supposed to do. Plus it would allow you the option to take the jobs or not take them at your own discretion. If you want someone else to do it, you say so and your continued participation is not required and the game marks it as a finished (NOT FAILED) quest on your part. The exceptions would be the quests for Farkas and Vilkas where they want you to cure them or go dragon hunting, because you *must* be the one to make those things happen. And the Totems of Hircine quests with Aela if you stay a werewolf, because those would be an "internal" Circle matter and wouldn't be passed on to a junior member.

That way it's not like you're the Harbinger but still required to behave like a whelp taking orders from the rest of the Circle just to continue being active in the faction.

what bothered me was no choice that I could see

you find out theyre werewolves and have to be okay with it. No option to try and out the Circle or kill them or turn the rest of the guild against them or anything. Either you're cool with being in a guild with werewolves in it (and becoming one) or you just say, "sorry guys. this just isnt for me," and walk off

having the option of a) doing the quest or [bee] not doing the quest isn't really having options

EDIT: damn b with the ) keeps showing up as a shades-smiley