Hey all,

I'm starting to encounter enemies that require more than 1 arrow sneak attack to kill. They take roughly 5 sneak hits or so.

I just tested using an unenchanted Imperial bow, and noted the amount of health that I took in 1 sneak attack hit.

I reloaded the game, but this time I used an enchanted Orcish bow that does fire damage, and I also added poison to it.

Both bows are close to each other in damage. Orcish bow does 13, Imperial bow does 11 or 12, can't remember.
Arrow: Both use iron arrow, 8 damage.
Enchantments: Orcish bow does 10 fire damage.
Poison: Orcish bow is poisoned that does 13 poison damage.
Blacksmithing sharpening: None for both bows.

Now the unenchanted Imperial bow with an iron arrow should do (12+8)*3 = 60 damage.
The enchanted Orcish bow should do (13+8+10+13)*3 = 132 damage.

But when I hit that same enemy, the health that I took is more or less the same! Although I am just gauging from the health bar and cannot be accurate, the health that I took away should be DOUBLE that from an unenchanted bow. 132 damage vs 60 damage.

It feels like the x3.0 sneak attack multiplier only applies to the base bow and arrow damage, and then the enchantment and poison damage is added in later.

((13+8)*3) + 10 + 13 = 86 damage.

60 damage vs 86 damage would be hard to distinguish on an enemy with theoretically 300 health.

So my question is:
1. Which damage is included in the damage multiplier for a sneak attack? Bow? Arrow? Poison? Enchantments? Blacksmith sharpening? Because it most definitely did not multiply all of them.
2. Is there a combat log that shows how much damage you are doing?

I believe it's only the base damage but I could be wrong.

Yes, agreed.

Which base damage? Bow only, or does it include the arrow?
And the way that blacksmithing sharpenings work, it increases the physical damage of the bow. So will the overall base+sharpening damage be multiplied?

This is unfortunate because I thought in Oblivion it took into account your poison and enchantments too. If I had known this, I would have taken the blacksmithing route instead of poisons to craft more powerful daggers.

Huh no aspiring stealth players are concerned by this? I think this is a big issue. At the very least, the sneak attack multiplier should benefit from poisons.

Not multiplying the enchantment damage is understandable, because you cannot sneak attack with magic.

Can anyone at least tell me whether there is any combat log to see your damage? Then I can test this for myself.

I thought this would be a major issue for all stealth players, but surprised that not many people are concerned by this.

I always assumed that it was just the bow's base damage + the arrow damage that was being multiplied. It doesn't make any sense for your poison to double in effectiveness just because the enemy wasn't expecting it.

Well you can ask why people suffer 15x more damage from daggers just because you sneak up on them. You can say that it is due to precise accuracy, like stabbing the heart or slitting the throat. But if that is the reasoning, wouldn't the poison and fire damage on the dagger further magnify that damage and pain on the fatal spots? Why only physical damage and not the other instant poison and magic damage? Pain is pain right?

I was used to Oblivion's sneak attack where I was almost certain it also multiplied poison and enchantment damage.

I guess I can live with it if the sneak attacks in Skyrim, but would be nice to have some confirmed answers.

How about blacksmithing perks? They seem to increase base damage. Are they multiplied?

Folks I have just done some testing.

1. Blacksmith sharpenings are taken into account for the backstab multiplier. Not poisons and enchantments.

Victim: Giant with ~600 health.
Dagger 1: Exquisite elven dagger - 20 damage.
Dagger 2: Elven dagger - 13 damage

The exquisite elven dagger (300 damage) does take away more health than the normal elven dagger (195 damage). It was noticeable on the health bar.

As previously mentioned, poisons and enchantments are not multiplied.

Dwarven dagger = 11 damage.
Fire damage = 10 damage.
Poison = 19 damage.

11*15 + 10 + 19 = 194 damage.

The health that it takes away is slightly more than the normal elven dagger. This could be because fire damage and poison bypass any armor the giant may have.

2. Power attacks are also multiplied.

A power attack with the exquisite elven dagger killed the giant in 1 shot. That means power attacks do double damage.

3. Arrow damage is multiplied.

I used the same bow, but used 2 different arrows.

Arrow 1: Falmer Arrow - 7 damage

Backstab damage = 7*3 = 21 damage

Arrow 2: Elven Arrow - 16 damage

Backstab damage = 16*3 = 48 damage

The health taken away is small but noticeable on a giant with 600 health. That means arrow damage is multiplied. If it didn't, the health would only move by a millimeter due to only 9 extra damage.

So folks, seems like blacksmithing is the key to assassinations, not poisons.