Giants vs Dragons - My experience.

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 1:43 pm

Chances are Giants will be nerfed a bit.

In my experience yesterday actually. I was coming out of a dungeon I had been in for an hour and ran down the slope of a mountain to a small village and sold some firewood when all of a sudden I heard the roar of the Dragon. Looked out and saw it circling around and breathing fire at a Giant. It landed and i saw it's health drop A TON so I rushed over there to get the kill myself and absorb the soul and I did so. Then the Giant came rushing towards me, now I'm an Archer so I was able to take down the giant by sprinting away, firing an arrow, and then sprinting away or using Whirlwind Sprint when it was available and within about 2 minutes I took down the Giant. Didn't seem to hard to me but it's easy to get wtfpwned by them and they need some nerfing when it comes to them attacking the player character and a Dragon.
User avatar
Dewayne Quattlebaum
 
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:29 pm

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 7:03 am

The problem with making dragons stronger is that they randomly attack towns. If they were too strong, you'd be stuck with ghost towns all over. Giants can be difficult because they'll rarely get close to a city to harass it, and anyone that comes across it in the wild is either unimportant, or essential and won't die anyway.

Once, I made 3D models.

...
One nice fact of polygons is that they're just points, not actual sizes.
They're a mesh, a canvas, upon which the textures are drawn.

Thus, you can decrease the distance between all the points by a certain factor without effort, and the model will retain the same look.

...
Small dragons.
Medium dragons.
Big dragons.

The only problem would be scripting.

But smaller dragons wouldn't need to fly, or wouldn't need to land; pick one.

Small dragons could be the random dragons, and larger ones the nonrandom.

I lost respect for dragons when mammoths, sabercats, trolls and giants all pose greater challenges than dragons.
User avatar
MatthewJontully
 
Posts: 3517
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:33 am

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 1:44 pm

Dragons
Dragons
Frost Trolls and animals other than Mammoths don't even make my list.
User avatar
Fiori Pra
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:30 pm

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 4:19 pm

feels like giants' powers will be changed in, hopefully, upcoming patch? Seriously giants can't be that strong
User avatar
Lucy
 
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:55 am

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 1:55 pm

Giants are weak as hell. It all depends on your level and difficulty your playing on. Besides anyone with the unrelenting shout at stage 3 shouldn't ever die to a giant. The knock back effect owns giants. They are to slow to get back up off there feet an dead by then.
User avatar
Arrogant SId
 
Posts: 3366
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 11:39 am

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 4:41 am

Haha, the liches are even better, their super duper backpedal of doom ability (which increases backpedaling speed by 400%) is hard to overcome as melee.
User avatar
Spooky Angel
 
Posts: 3500
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:41 pm

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 8:40 am

I don't understand why Giants would need to be nerfed? They're a one trick pony - if they can get a melee attack on you, they can pwn you (well, maybe a high-level warrior in heavy armor could endure one or two hits, not sure). So, don't ever let them hit you. They die like anything else if you get damage on them. As others have said, unrelenting force, which you unlock all three words very early in the game, will knock them down, you can easily outrun them while waiting for shouts/magicka to recharge, or to kite them and do ranged bow/magic attacks. Giants have no magic and no bows - no ranged attack at all. Melee'ers can knock em down with Fus Ro Dah then beat on them, and if need be, run away before they get back up (if they aren't already dead). Poison's and/or enchantments on your sword/axe/hammer might help too.
User avatar
Cody Banks
 
Posts: 3393
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:30 am

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 4:41 pm

Once, I made 3D models.

...
One nice fact of polygons is that they're just points, not actual sizes.
They're a mesh, a canvas, upon which the textures are drawn.

Thus, you can decrease the distance between all the points by a certain factor without effort, and the model will retain the same look.

...
Small dragons.
Medium dragons.
Big dragons.

The only problem would be scripting.

But smaller dragons wouldn't need to fly, or wouldn't need to land; pick one.

Small dragons could be the random dragons, and larger ones the nonrandom.

I lost respect for dragons when mammoths, sabercats, trolls and giants all pose greater challenges than dragons.

What the hell are you talking about? So only small, weak dragons (that are disguised as big nasty dragons) should ever attack towns? And only the big nasty dragons should be out doing nothing in the wild just so they can fulfill your skewed view of what should be more dangerous? That doesn't fix anything, because you would still just roll over the [censored] dragons and complain about how much they svck when the random crappy guard kills it with iron arrows.

And I really wish people would stop saying "I do 3D models"... Good for you - that proves nothing. Modelers are artists, not designers. This argument wasn't about whether or not it could be done, it was about whether or not it would make the whole thing believable and balanced when some super dragon comes down and destroys a town, but seemingly can't kill anyone because they all have to be essential to avoid wiping out the population in the game completely.
User avatar
Margarita Diaz
 
Posts: 3511
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:01 pm

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 1:16 am

Please Gods (read Bethesda Game Studios, and it's Elder God Todd Howard) do NOT nerf the giants. I like the fact that there are these powerful, generally non-threatening monsters roaming the land. It forces me to respect some of the wildlife and aware of what's around me. If they became easy, early, it would take away their majesty and power.
User avatar
Catherine N
 
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:58 pm

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 12:52 pm

Yeah, the problem is not that Giants are powerful enough to send you to the skies...the problem is that they can also bash Dragons to death in no time when only the Dragonborns are supposed to do so.
User avatar
Nicholas C
 
Posts: 3489
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:20 am

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 9:51 am

Yeah, the problem is not that Giants are powerful enough to send you to the skies...the problem is that they can also bash Dragons to death in no time when only the Dragonborns are supposed to do so.

Not true - because in your very first encounter, you're accompanied by White Run guards and you all slay the dragon. Dragonborn aren't supposed to be the only ones to kill dragons, they're just the only ones that can absorb their power and learn shouts with ease (opposed to the many years of training it takes a regular person to learn a shout).
User avatar
Laurenn Doylee
 
Posts: 3427
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:48 am

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 2:00 am

Not true - because in your very first encounter, you're accompanied by White Run guards and you all slay the dragon. Dragonborn aren't supposed to be the only ones to kill dragons, they're just the only ones that can absorb their power and learn shouts with ease (opposed to the many years of training it takes a regular person to learn a shout).

I think part of the problem is that gamesas were so excited about Dragons and Dragon shouts, they introduced them ridiculously early in the game, and as such, have to scale them down so that a level 2 newb, with the help of a few guards from Whiterun, can pwn a dragon. I actually thought that was a bit on the lame side. If Dragons in the Elder Scrolls lore are actually supposed to be powerful and threatening, then you've got not business fighting one before at least like level 20 or 25 or so - when you are conceivably strong enough to actually be able to defeat one.

So, they gimped out the dragons. That is, the problem isn't that giants are too strong - the game needs some powerful enemies for you to fight against at higher levels, and it's not unreasonable to have basically passive powerful enemies in the game, roaming the wilds, from level 1 - so long as you can avoid doing battle with them when you are too low level. The problem is that many of the dragons are just too weak.
User avatar
Yama Pi
 
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:51 am

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 10:59 am

I know how you feel, i spent a good 20 minuets in a desperate struggle against a low level dragon, using every trick in the book and all of my gear- and i just barely won by a hair's length. So when a dragon ambushes a giant and his mammoth, i naturally rush to their aid, shooting arrows from a bit away while remaining unseen. After the battle, the Dragon is killed and the pair go about their merry way. I thought it would be a great chance to slay them and see what type of loot they carried. So i ambush them, only to find out that the Dragon badly dented their health! So after a few fruitless arrows and a near-one shot i sprint away into the hills!
User avatar
Euan
 
Posts: 3376
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 3:34 pm

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 2:59 pm

Not true - because in your very first encounter, you're accompanied by White Run guards and you all slay the dragon. Dragonborn aren't supposed to be the only ones to kill dragons, they're just the only ones that can absorb their power and learn shouts with ease (opposed to the many years of training it takes a regular person to learn a shout).

Sorry, I've explained myself bad....english is not my native language ;)
I didn't mean "the only one able to kill a dragon", I was trying to say that Dragonborns should be the only one able to kill Dragons with ease..
Seeing a giant 2shotting Dragons is kinda weird, as it's seeing some vids about Dragons attacking small settlements like Riverwood and getting pwned by 3-4 guards :P
User avatar
OnlyDumazzapplyhere
 
Posts: 3445
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:43 am

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 9:01 am

At expert Blood dragons now seem stronger than frost trolls, dragon priests and giants are still the hardest things i face though.
User avatar
Mark Hepworth
 
Posts: 3490
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:51 pm

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 12:00 pm

I don't know why you people are constantly complaining about dragons being weaker than Giants, I came across a Giant Camp and killed both of the giants there in less time than It would take me to kill a dragon. The only thing they got going for them is high damage.
User avatar
^~LIL B0NE5~^
 
Posts: 3449
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:38 pm

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 10:40 am

I think part of the problem is that gamesas were so excited about Dragons and Dragon shouts, they introduced them ridiculously early in the game, and as such, have to scale them down so that a level 2 newb, with the help of a few guards from Whiterun, can pwn a dragon. I actually thought that was a bit on the lame side. If Dragons in the Elder Scrolls lore are actually supposed to be powerful and threatening, then you've got not business fighting one before at least like level 20 or 25 or so - when you are conceivably strong enough to actually be able to defeat one.

So, they gimped out the dragons. That is, the problem isn't that giants are too strong - the game needs some powerful enemies for you to fight against at higher levels, and it's not unreasonable to have basically passive powerful enemies in the game, roaming the wilds, from level 1 - so long as you can avoid doing battle with them when you are too low level. The problem is that many of the dragons are just too weak.

Not necessarily... The first dragon fight is a scripted encounter, and could have been done with you never knowing how weak they were compared to a giant. You may have had a good idea (a couple hits to kill you instead of the 1-hit giant kill), but you wouldn't have seen it. Technically, they could have been rare right after that.

I definitely agree that dragons are not nearly as dangerous as they should probably be, but they are also capable of doing things that no other creature does (attack towns). This just goes back to whether or not you want to increase their difficulty and risk turning every city into a ghost town because they are told to attack a random town for dramatic effect, or making everyone essential in a game where people cry about not being able to kill kids because it "breaks immersion".

And to be entirely honest, giants should be able to kill dragons, IMO. After all, they are 3 times the size of you and swing a club as big as a small tree. Also, the whole "you have to be 20-25 to kill one" isn't a very good argument either. My first character was level 10-15 with 70 sneak. That's well beyond "newb level" for that particular skill. Practice any and only an offensive skill long enough and it will be powerful enough for the higher levels. The only thing your level determines is your health/mana/stamina, which is almost negligible when you have good armor as well.
User avatar
Samantha Jane Adams
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:00 pm

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 10:09 am


And to be entirely honest, giants should be able to kill dragons, IMO. After all, they are 3 times the size of you and swing a club as big as a small tree. Also, the whole "you have to be 20-25 to kill one" isn't a very good argument either. My first character was level 10-15 with 70 sneak. That's well beyond "newb level" for that particular skill. Practice any and only an offensive skill long enough and it will be powerful enough for the higher levels. The only thing your level determines is your health/mana/stamina, which is almost negligible when you have good armor as well.

I agree that giants should be able to kill dragons...guards and mercenary should be able as well granted they outnumber the beast by A LOT, but again, Dragons are the terrible beasts returned after centuries to set the world aflame and seeing a giant killing one with ease while shouting "YOU NO TOUCH MAMMOT!!!!" its just wrong, imho :P
For me, it ruins all the epicness of being a Dragonborn
User avatar
Anthony Santillan
 
Posts: 3461
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:42 am

Post » Sat May 12, 2012 1:18 am

The one that the giant killed was common, so I think that pretty much explains it. If the dragons I've been fighting are common though, I'm dreading the elite ones. :shakehead:

Walked up to a fight between a dragon and a giant.

The giant had depleted over half of the dragons health.

People keep complaining about giants and dragons, but one thing to keep in mind is that dragons can fly, they can come in from no where, they can breath fire, ice, etc. along with biting you and hitting you with their tails.

I think they are fine and they clearly progress with your characters level.
User avatar
Catharine Krupinski
 
Posts: 3377
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:39 pm

Previous

Return to V - Skyrim