The trickster god?

Thats what the elve's call him hes a hero to the nords,redguards and imperials.

because it assumes that there is no basis for what "good" and "evil" actually mean. however, people go by what is culturally associated with these things. in order to actually believe in moral nihilism, u have to remove that assumption (unless of course ur taught moral nihilism before u form the typical "good" and "evil" assumptions as a child, which would be very odd).

this thread is tricky. our assumptions and basis' for "good" and "evil" may work for the real world, but do they work for skyrim? doubtful.

That would be good

Valid point. Social nihilism is getting into philosophy, which will keep us here all night. I think it all comes down to this...

Whose side are you on? Because there seems to be a team breakdown going on here - Daedra vs Aedra. Since Men and Mer are in Nirn, made by the Aedra, they are usually of the opinion that Daedra are evil and Aedra are good. Unless you're a Dunmer, but...there's a reason nobody likes them. Or if you're from Yokuda/Hammerfell. In which case, you love the Tall Papa and none of this other crap makes ANY since at all.

WHY IS THIS SO COMPLICATED?

Bethesda did a good job with religion.

Because everyone has motives......Azura Seemed nice in mw But it ended up being a selfish sceam to get back at the tribunal......

I personally believe that they are beyond "good", "evil", and "grey". They function and act upon what they represent and the moral compass of that is left to be resolved by lesser beings.

there are No good Daedra and also there ar eNO evil Daedra either, save maybe menhrunes dagon.


so is hircine good or evil.

no he is in the grey area

Yes there is nothing evil about killing people. Just so long as we call it "sport".

I define evil as knowingly harming others for one's own personal gain or enjoyment or a selfish disregard for the well-being of others. All of the Daedra have committed many evil acts, some more than others. In Oblivion, Hircine asked me to kill the last known unicorn in the world because he wanted its horn. That's evil in my book.

Well in skyrim He wants you to skin a werewolf because it displeased him (And you have to hunt "A great beast"

That's a very simple, fluid way of thinking about it. Are you Russian, perchance? No, but seriously, valid point. Even the Aedra/Daedra recognize Lorkhan being "The Trickster" and such. They recognize that he screwed them over, which is something that was "evil" and not a good thing to do.

all he cares about is the chase and the kill he is a predator so hes grey he will chase any quarry he deems worthy of his attention be it beast man mer or beastman he is a hunter and he respects fellow hunters because they understand his ways.

Very good description! Is there any lore stories about hircine?

Read the book Infernal City. There is a point when some of the characters traverse Hircine's realm.

not many but i can tell hes just as feral as the werewolves he created. hes harmless unless he thinks you to be prey.

Yes i know but was there any dioulge with Hircine? have not read the book in while!

Been a while for me too, i cannot remember

Daedra don't know good or evil. Each is the embodiment of its sphere. Hircine is the hunt. There are good (the culling of the unfit) and evil (the killing of sentient beings) aspects, but they are all part of a whole.

Mehrunes Dagon is the prince of destruction. Daedra are in general the embodiment of change, and his is likely the most pure example of that. Destruction IS change. Destruction can harm a lot of people, but in the end Dagon is only doing precisely what Dagon does.

While I'm not a huge fan of moral ambiguity in most stories, it's done really well in TES lore. TES lore in general is likely my favorite of any IP, due to its depth and the organic way in which it is introduced through ingame books and such. the Aedra and Daedra are examples of, in my opinion, some of the best storytelling in the business.

True but poor dagon is being forced too...

German actually, but only in bloodline. I was born and raised in America. My definition of evil comes from the Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook. It's basically just the Golden Rule: Treat others as you want to be treated.

Good/Evil, Bad/Neutral are matters of perspective/moral conviction/opinion. Arguably theses standards cannot be definitively applied to anyone or anything. Some games may claim perspectives and stances on Good and Evil but the Elder Scrolls is not one of them. The Deadra are not evil. The difference between Aedra and Deadra is that Aedra created the world and the lifeforms on it. The Deadra did not. Aedra translates to "Our ancestors" and Deadra translates to "Not our ancestors". I think our societies moral stances are somewhat parallel to the majority of the peoples on Tamriel. Merunes Dagon is considered "bad" because of his love for death and destruction. Molag Bal is considered "bad" because he wants to enslave humankind and created Vampires, who in the general view are "bad" because of their violent tendencies and relation to Molag Bal, though some are clearly exceptions. When it comes to Azura perspective and opinion are key.

When the subject turns to Hircine I find difficulty. I have not heard many NPC's speak negatively of Hircine despite the fact that he is known to have created the Man-beasts which are just as despised and feared as Vampires. His motives are arguably neutral because what is more equalizing than the race for survival? Even though the odds are stacked against them, Hircine always allows his prey a chance to survive. Perhaps this has something to do with the people of Nirn's disposition toward Hircine. Compared to other deadra Princes he is not as personally and negatively involved in their lives, regardless of his legacy.