Okay, I'm thinking about HTH right now. We have is three thing that help it:

1: Kajhit have a Racial Ability that gives 15 HTH damage.

2: The perk in heavy amour that increases HTH using gauntlets.

3: The Gloves of Pugligism that a reviewer found in Riften on a theif. I think it's +15 again.

Now, Kajhit + gloves = 30 HTH I beleive. I don't know for certain if that works, but in a certain footage the highest sword power I think was 17. Granted it was steel, but it was still 13 lower.

4. Now, I think (Once again, not certain) that being a Werewolf boosts you HTH again. I don't know how much or if it applies in human form, but with the above, that's 30 plus a boost.

Finally, considering we don't really know if HTH is it's own stats or if it comes under One or two handed, there is the possiblity (Not garenteed) that the perks from one of then can affect it.

Now, I may be WAY wrong here, but if not, HTH MAY be a viable option yet. Someone either ask Pete or ask someone who already has the game to test it.

Right now the only known reason to use H2H is for brawling townsfolks without killing them or getting in trouble with the law. Also if you fistfights as a form of the Speech Skill so you can hit them up for more information if you win.

Seems like H2H is just a way to knock people out. Some quests require you to fight someone without killing them, H2H would work for those quests. Khajjits and those with the right perks will just have an easier time knocking someone out. I don't think it was designed as a viable fighting style to use in deadly encounters.

Some people are just not going to accept this obvious design direction. There will always be mods for those on the PC.

Pretty sure someone said there were finishing moves with hand to hand so to me that would imply that is for more than just knocking people out but i could be wrong there.

This is the TES community, between all members about 99% of the game won't be accepted. And of course mods will be made to 'fix' it all. I do find it interesting how there isn't a single topic about gameplay featurs without somebody mentioning that a mod will remdedy it. People should just put this in their sig:

'Two rules of life: 1. Simpsons did it! 2. Mods will fix it!'

In this case I don't have any problem with the design choice, I nevered used H2H anyway, now it seems like a cool little extra that my warrior characters can use both for roleplaying and questing.

Ok, then what else is there to say? We have seen the perks, the skills, and know the situation of H2H. Or is this just a rant in general?

If you're a Khajiit it's literally the only thing you have going favorably for you.

Pete said via Twitter either HTH is either both Lethal and Non Lethal, or just Lethal. I don't recall which. EIther way, I know it's not just Non Lethal. In which case, we need to try and figure out what makes it viable. i'm pretty sure it can be. Just look at the maths, and if that works, then that's one way already. Once again, I need someone to check somehow. Ask Pete or something.

The way I imagine it works is that it isn't a viable way to kill someone (as in: not very effective) but it can be done (as in: real life).

However its primary use is to knock people out (as seen in spoiler material).

I'm just responding to the topic, with an answer, a joke and my opinion.

There are certain circumstances where you can beat someone into submission to pass a speech challenge in order to get information from them or other things like that. In that case it is non-lethal. Outside of that special circumstance, it's lethal.

Maybe in brawls its non lethal (the fight stop when one of the contenders passes out) and its lethal everywhere else. H2H could have been an excellent stealth skill with the proper damage modifiers. Of course, that implies an AI that can recognize corpses on the ground and go alert other NPCs.

A glass longsword in one of the demo videos had 35 base damage.

So the khajiit Hand to hand isn't that hig, though unarmed attacks are much faster so you can hit more often which makes up the average - the question is whether or not Khajiit H2H damage stacks with the gloves, or fists of steel gauntlet bonus. The fists of steel bonus seems to be 1:1 - and if AR works like Oblivion (And the numbers do look similar), the best gloves in the game will have around 24-25 AR.

If they do not stack then hand to hand caps at around 25 damage, which is quite reasonable - if it stacks for khajiit, we're looking at closer to 40 damage (Ebony equivalent O,o)

At least those are the BASE damage values, Someone specialised in melee might have 120% worth of damage modifiers - which leaves hand to hand by the wayside. HOWEVER in another video I saw, a guy attacking unarmed levelled up his one-handed skill while doing so. If hand to hand counts as a one handed weapon you may get SOME damage perks out of the one handed tree.

Would also be nice if there is a mod that will enhance HTH when you're using the Oakskin/Stoneflesh/Ironskin spell. Cause ya know, hitting someone with an iron fist should hurt a bit more I guess?

Here's hoping the Khajiit can wear fingerless heavy gauntlets. Or something.

I hope this is the case, because if so we can potentialy double the Kajhit damage to 80 if they stack. Even if not it can get to 50.