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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 10:00 pm

Well that is clearly a pick-pocket system that hasn't been properly thought of. Adding a bounty they must pay if they fail, no matter what items they are currently carrying, would elimnate the no risk - all reward you described. For example, as long as a player has an unpaid bounty, he isn't allowed into market places to sell his goods, or even to banks where he can grab some money from his vault to pay the bounty.
Only way i can see Pickpocketing being balanced in terms of Risk vs Reward, is if the Thief must be wearing and/or carrying items worth X percentage of the item they're attempting to steal. So if they want to try to steal an expensive item, they have to be wearing or carrying some expensive gear/items to attempt it. If caught and killed, the thief can be fully looted.

Back then in UO, if a thief failed to pickpocket (or even partially succeeded, where he stole the item but got noticed) he was flagged as Criminal for 5 minutes. Criminals could be freely attacked by anyone without legal repercussion (even in towns), guards could be called on them in towns (which was instant death), their corpse was freely lootable by anyone without legal repercussion, and they could not Recall/Gate Travel or access their bank account. Anyone who performed a beneficial act (Such as resurrecting or healing) on a Criminal or Murderer, became flagged as a criminal themselves for several minutes.
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Ladymorphine
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 6:39 pm

Only way i can see Pickpocketing being balanced in terms of Risk vs Reward, is if the Thief must be wearing and/or carrying items worth X percentage of the item they're attempting to steal. So if they want to try to steal an expensive item, they have to be wearing or carrying some expensive gear/items to attempt it. If caught and killed, the thief can be fully looted.

Back then in UO, if a thief failed to pickpocket (or even partially succeeded, where he stole the item but got noticed) he was flagged as Criminal for 5 minutes. Criminals could be freely attacked by anyone without legal repercussion (even in towns), guards could be called on them in towns (which was instant death), their corpse was freely lootable by anyone without legal repercussion, and they could not Recall/Gate Travel or access their bank account. Anyone who performed a beneficial act (Such as resurrecting or healing) on a Criminal or Murderer, became flagged as a criminal themselves for several minutes.
Having a bounty over their head when they are caught pick-pocketing would fix it. This way, they could even be running around naked, without any gear at all, and still have to pay for the failed pick-pocketing.
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Brandi Norton
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 5:25 pm

Stealth classes are always friggin' broken. Always.

There's always gonna be an asshat that specifically waits to jump targets that are low on health and then acts like he's king of the hill when he, big surprise, manages to kill the guy who was at 20% health.
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Susan Elizabeth
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 2:43 am

Stealth classes are always friggin' broken. Always.

There's always gonna be an asshat that specifically waits to jump targets that are low on health and then acts like he's king of the hill when he, big surprise, manages to kill the guy who was at 20% health.
I'd say any class could kill someone, stealth or not, if that scenario happens.
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naome duncan
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 7:30 pm

I'd say any class could kill someone, stealth or not, if that scenario happens.

Of course, the difference being that the stealth class is the one with the tool to specifically wait for that moment, and generally has a tool to run away afterwards.
I just know from my experience in MMOs, the stealth classes are always the most annoying, filled with people with egos the size of yachts who seem to think they're God for attacking weakened targets. And of course, where do they find weakened targets? On battlefields between other players. So while that mage and warrior are going toe-to-toe and having a blast matching wit and skill, that stealth class is just waiting to ruin it and attack one of them while they're stunned or weak. Grats, you proved you can kill a weakened target that doesn't expect you at all and already has his hands full. Want a cookie? Maybe next you'll wanna prove that if we made you fight a sickly puppy in a cage fight, you'd win? I'm sure everyone will be super impressed. Infact, do you mind showing off how awesome you are somewhere else? Far away? So me and my mage friend can continue enjoying the game and enjoying real combat?
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Emmie Cate
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 9:58 pm

Stealth characters could be rendered invisible to other players when their sneaking, only becoming visible when another player successfully passes some sort of detection check.

WoW
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Leanne Molloy
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 6:51 pm

Of course, the difference being that the stealth class is the one with the tool to specifically wait for that moment, and generally has a tool to run away afterwards.
I just know from my experience in MMOs, the stealth classes are always the most annoying, filled with people with egos the size of yachts who seem to think they're God for attacking weakened targets. And of course, where do they find weakened targets? On battlefields between other players. So while that mage and warrior are going toe-to-toe and having a blast matching wit and skill, that stealth class is just waiting to ruin it and attack one of them while they're stunned or weak. Grats, you proved you can kill a weakened target that doesn't expect you at all and already has his hands full. Want a cookie? Maybe next you'll wanna prove that if we made you fight a sickly puppy in a cage fight, you'd win? I'm sure everyone will be super impressed. Infact, do you mind showing off how awesome you are somewhere else? Far away? So me and my mage friend can continue enjoying the game and enjoying real combat?
I still don't understand why a tank-character couldn't just do the same thing, walk in there, smash up a weakened enemy, and feel like a "god". :shrug:
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^_^
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 10:54 pm

I still don't understand why a tank-character couldn't just do the same thing, walk in there, smash up a weakened enemy, and feel like a "god". :shrug:

Because the Mage and Warrior would likely notice the tank char coming, and it'd become a 3 way fight. With a stealther, it'd be a 2 way fight, with a "SURPRIZE! BUTT SECKZ!" at the end. Like i said before, the element of surprise and getting the jump on your enemy with the first hit, grants a huge advantage in PvP. When people are surprised/startled in PvP, they tend to make mistakes, and the opponent already has the advantage. Believe me, i know. Been PvPing for 15 years, since UO Beta in 1997. I've seen what happens when a person is either fighting someone/something else, and suddenly someone pops up out of nowhere and starts attacking them. Most people tend to panic immediately, and like i said, make mistakes. If CC is involved, generally the fight is over before it even began.
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Jade Barnes-Mackey
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 4:10 am

Pickpocketing other players has been tried and it wasn't that great. Trying to do any banking in UO was a major annoyance. I just don't foresee any dev wanting to open up that can of worms again.

There are other factors to consider in regards to stealth though. Divination school of magic should have abilities to improve stealth detection. By design, stealth and anti-stealth will have to be skill based to some extent. Then there is chameleon which is magic similar to stealth but does not reduce noise like stealth does, meaning it is sight only stealth. Then again, there is true invisibility which simply renders a character invisible ala wow. What I am saying is that TES, by design, has a number of different ways to achieve some degree of stealth, making it far more accessible than the typical mmo design.

Wow did in fact have stealth detection built into it, although it was a stat that could not be tinkered with. Druids seemed to me to be the best class for detecting stealthers. You could hear them before you saw them usually. You would get that sound that played when characters entered stealth and I would know to start looking for the ripples in the terrain and to start seeking a target. If I could get them rooted or stunned before they got the jump on me it was usually another HK for me.

If stealth is implemented in this game for either combat or just general roguery such as pick-pocketing, then anti-stealth skills will also be needed. I am thinking traditional high perception characters such as archers may have some by default and of course, divination magic should be able to boost it via some buff system (short duration high detection or long duration short detection type mechanic). Typically, stealth characters in group pvp are line breakers, penetrating the heavily armored line to seek softer targets such as healers and squishy mages. If those characters are able to boost stealth detection via divination, then it makes for near certain death for a stealth character once you factor in cc measures and the ton of dps being poured on them.

Most WoW rogues hang out, seeking soft targets simply because, if I understand them right, they svck in a group setting. They are easily way over-powered 1 vs 1 depending on who gets the jump but in a group setting, they are nearly as soft a target as healing priests.

Im not trying to argue for or against stealth, merely trying to open up the view to what it is and how it will affect group pvp. It is indeed hard to balance. Make it too strong and it's nearly always win for the stealther. Make it too weak and the class typically becomes nearly unplayable.
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Kieren Thomson
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 9:18 pm

Most WoW rogues hang out, seeking soft targets simply because, if I understand them right, they svck in a group setting. They are easily way over-powered 1 vs 1 depending on who gets the jump but in a group setting, they are nearly as soft a target as healing priests.

Not sure when you played but rogues now have more in combat defensive cooldowns than your average tank and a self heal

Oh, and holy / discipline priests are impossible to kill. Period.

Which is another thing that'll eventually happen to a generic MMO such as this one will become. Everyone will be a 1 man army.
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Danny Warner
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 2:58 am

I don't mind stealth classes in pvp games, so long as the stealthers have to pay for that ability somehow. I.e., they can't win in a pure stand up fight with a non stealther. They need to exploit weakened enemies or, team up 2v1 or more. My opinion.
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Chris Guerin
 
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