Handling loot for each playstyle...

Post » Mon May 14, 2012 6:15 pm

You're just playing word games in that post. Care to try again?

Okay... let me lay it all out for you and anyone else who may be interested:

There are five distinct quantifiable play-styles in MMOs:

1 - The True Soloist - Seeks out content that can be done without direct aid from others. Every MMO since WoW has featured these so clearly developers recognize the validity of the play style whether you do or not.
2 - The grouper - Seeks out content that allows them and others to group up and ecperience together. Every MMO that has ever existed has allowed for this, and nobody questions its validity
3 - The Raider - Seeks out content that requires a large group working together to accomplish what would be impossible in small groups or by one's self. Every MMO since EverQuest has allowed for this, and nobody questions its validity
4 - The PvPer - Seeks out other players to fight against, either 1-on-1 or group vs. group in a variety of competitive gameplay modes. Every MMO that has existed has allowed for this, and nobody questions its validity.
5 - The Social Soloist - Seeks a niche within an online world where he or she can just be a part of the world, providing services or goods that others need, usually in the context of Role-playing. Prominently allowed and encouraged in Ultima Online, to a lesser degree in Star Wars Galaxies, and eschewed in design by World of Warcraft and every other MMO that has come after it, yet they manage to find a way to exist in those environments none the less, in spite of the efforts deliberately put forth to choke them out.

I advocate Play-style #5 and believe that it is just as valid as the other four play-styles. MMOs from WoW on have stopped being about a world you can be a part of, and has become about following a developers predefined script going from A to B to C to D. I don't want to be led from A to B... I just want to BE.

Like whatever play-style you want. Choose to avoid whichever ones you want. But do not try to tell me that MY chosen play-style is invalid in an MMO, when the first commercially successful MMO not only allowed it but was actually DESIGNED around it.

I will not argue with you. If you throw up some sort of snide remark, I will consider you to be trying to bait an argument. I will not reply to you. But I will report you. I've been an MMO player for as long as there have been MMOs to play. I have observed the successes and failures of different attempts at satisfying the player base. I have seen what works and what doesn't and I have an understanding of what needs to happen to make ALL players feel welcome. I am here not to argue semantics, but to offer my years of observation on the subject both to ZOS and this community. If you wish to engage in civil debate, then fine. But if you try to be the elitist jerk who thinks that the only play-style that matters is his preferred play-style, then I will not hesitate to report you.

TESO needs to be for everyone, or else it will be yet another MMO that fails to reach its potential.

After all these years of playing MMOs and observing how things get done, that is my firm belief, and I will stand behind it and fight for it tooth and nail.
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Penny Flame
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 12:45 am

I still think the OP has a good point

I would even be happy if "raid" content had a smaller group option where you can go with a couple of good friends and experience the end content without having to grind for gear for 3 -5 months and then get told your a noob and there are 100 guild members w8ing there turn for that raid

its one of the reasons i left wow
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Trevor Bostwick
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 9:49 pm

Right, there are different playstyles, and that's what I said. Each playstyle should be rewarded, but that doesn't mean that a soloist will be able to see raid level content just because they want to "experience the story".
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Guy Pearce
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 7:38 pm

Right, there are different playstyles, and that's what I said. Each playstyle should be rewarded, but that doesn't mean that a soloist will be able to see raid level content just because they want to "experience the story".

Explain to us why a map that is designed for raid-scale content cannot also be used in content that us directed at the other playstyles? Now explain to my why it should not. And be careful of your explanations, as they will paint you as either the elitist jerk who wants exclusive rights to parts of the game, or the reasonable debater who seeks an MMO environment that is openly welcoming to all.

So please... Let's hear your explanation... Why cannot the environments used in raid content also be used for other play-style content, and why should it not be used so? I yield the floor to you...
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Jonathan Montero
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 2:54 am

Explain to us why a map that is designed for raid-scale content cannot also be used in content that us directed at the other playstyles? Now explain to my why it should not. And be careful of your explanations, as they will paint you as either the elitist jerk who wants exclusive rights to parts of the game, or the reasonable debater who seeks an MMO environment that is openly welcoming to all.

So please... Let's hear your explanation... Why cannot the environments used in raid content also be used for other play-style content, and why should it not be used so? I yield the floor to you...

Lol nice way to frame the debate. One part of any game is overcoming a certain challenge. Now there can be content that is rewarding for multiple playstyles, but I don't see why someone who wants to just solo everything should see the same content as a group of people who put in the time and dedication to put together that group and then overcome that challenge. Also, it would be pretty ridiculous, for example, if you had a situation where in one case a whole raid is required to overcome a certain dungeon and then someone soloing can do the same thing.
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josh evans
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 7:35 am

Personally, you try to satisfy everyone people complain. You dont satisfy everyone people complain. I hope this games turns out like daoc did before WoW came about. You didnt have as much fighting and people calling each other elitist and such. So we just need to trust the developers with what they are doing and see what we get. Plus not enough info has been released yet to truly understand what the game will be like. But as ive said from the interviews i have seen about the game. It all sounded just like daoc and it sounds like that is what this game will be but with an TES name on it. Which is perfectly fine with me, since when that game was released it was a really good sucess in a market that was not that big at the time. 10 years later and its still up and running but with a much smaller population due to problems with the company being taken over and staffing being reduced. But before all that it was a really great game and made lots of money.
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Daniel Brown
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 7:01 am

Lol nice way to frame the debate. One part of any game is overcoming a certain challenge. Now there can be content that is rewarding for multiple playstyles, but I don't see why someone who wants to just solo everything should see the same content as a group of people who put in the time and dedication to put together that group and then overcome that challenge. Also, it would be pretty ridiculous, for example, if you had a situation where in one case a whole raid is required to overcome a certain dungeon and then someone soloing can do the same thing.

Depends on how the solo approach is set up. In a Raid, everyone does their part to take down pretty much everything that poses a threat... But a solo mission into the same lair might be more geared towards covert infiltration. to accomplish a specific goal. As a soloist, I could explore the whole place, possibly dressed as the enemy so unless I start doing things to attract attention to myself, I'm left alone pretty much by the big bad elites wandering around... That way, if I want to see the whole place in all of its awesome artistic design, I can. Of course if I wander into the Boss's chamber, his top-level cronies will be likem "You're not supposed to be in here! Explain yourself..." and the show's over. There's a difference in wanting to be able to explore everything the gameworld has to offer and wanting to do solo what only a raid group should be able to do. It comes down to whether or not the areas are designed with all playstyles in mind. If they are, then there is no reason whatsoever why they cannot and should not be open to all, regardless of playstyle...
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Ricky Rayner
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 2:00 am

If you just want to see it there are videos. However, I do like the idea of doing limited solo quests within the dungeon. Those might be limited to stealthy characters though so you're in a catch 22 there as far as your design philosophy would have it.
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ZzZz
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 2:31 am

Lol nice way to frame the debate. One part of any game is overcoming a certain challenge. Now there can be content that is rewarding for multiple playstyles, but I don't see why someone who wants to just solo everything should see the same content as a group of people who put in the time and dedication to put together that group and then overcome that challenge. Also, it would be pretty ridiculous, for example, if you had a situation where in one case a whole raid is required to overcome a certain dungeon and then someone soloing can do the same thing.

You must be thinking "endgame." It's perfectly reasonable that a higher-level player might be able to solo a dungeon that required a party of lower-level players.

One of the problems with this kind of "group-game-think" is that it doesn't take RP into consideration. If I'm roleplaying a stealthy thief type character, I'm not likely to be interested in teaming with a group of tramping yahoos. Are you suggesting that I shouldn't be allowed to try to sneak into that dungeon and make off with the loot?

"Multiplayer" does not mean the same thing as "team." I've played several MMORPGs, and enjoyed them, and I absolutely detest the Tank/Healer/Caster party nonsense. There's much more than that to role-playing, and there's more to MMORPGs than that.
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GLOW...
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 3:25 am

Yes I'm suggesting that a lone thief would not be able to infiltrate the lair of the most powerful evil dude or whatever. The thief might be able to sneak in a dungeon and get some loot but not all of it and might get killed easily if they are seen. Of course it takes RP into consideration. What you're suggesting seems ridiculous from many points of view especially from an RP viewpoint.
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Georgia Fullalove
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 6:27 am

If you just want to see it there are videos. However, I do like the idea of doing limited solo quests within the dungeon. Those might be limited to stealthy characters though so you're in a catch 22 there as far as your design philosophy would have it.

Doesn't have to be just stealthy characters. if Im Daggerfall Covenant and I'm infiltrating Aldmeri Dominion territory, If I am decked out in full Aldmeri garb, unless I go poking around in places even an average Aldmeri Dominion citizen would go, I should be able to avoid drawing agro. If I do, then someone should gom "You there... Remove your helmet!" If I do, then the game is up, since there won't be any hiding the fact that I am not Altmer, Bosmer or Kajiit... If I don't they'll probably attack me anyway, but if I take them out without being witnessed, then I should still be good for a bit, but I had better be about my business.

In theory, any map can be repurposed for any scenario needed. It all depends on how inventive the content writer is. And whether or not the company is serious about an MMO that is welcoming to all.

Include equal content for all five of the playstyles I speak of, figure out a way that is believable by which all playstyles might visit any given area.

How would a social soloist fit in a raid area? If they are citizens of the controlling faction, they may have business there. Running supplies, etc. Or just taking in the sights. One factions location of terror is another faction's recreational area...
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JD FROM HELL
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 3:56 am

Yes but a dungeon is likely not going to be the home of one faction or the other, it will be an outside force that has nothing to do with any of the factions. I think infiltrating any area would also require a certain skillset of the character in question. I don't think that would be very easy anyways. As far as "equal" content goes that's kind of hard to define and to quantify. I think what I already said is perfectly reasonable, make each play style rewarding. I think that's where the traditional guilds will come in as well.
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Eliza Potter
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 9:59 pm

Never said it should be easy. Just possible.
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Kelly Upshall
 
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