First let's get some things straight:

- The game is a bugged mess
- Only PS3 has these kind of lag and stutter issues
- The save file IS SUPPOSED to grow in size, that's how the game keeps track of everything you've done.
- This thread i made on the 360 forums: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1286193-would-some-of-you-be-kind-enough-to-tell-me-how-big-is-your-save-file-and-how-many-hours-you-played/

DON'T TROLL IT LEAVE IT ALONE!


On the first days after release we were all trying to find out what was the problem, the more you played the worse it got so the save file theory was born and ever since then we have all been jumping in to that bandwagon like it was a confirmed thing, including those clownish parrots from the "gaming media". So Captain Ambiguous PR guy extraordinaire interrupts his vacay planing to post that the patch will "improve performance for long-term play on PS3". I certainly HOPE that Bethesda didn't blindly jump in to the bandwagon as well and made it so the game doesn't keep track of as many things as it used to instead of actually fixing the code. If it works on 360 it must work on PS3, just program it right!


That is of course if the patch does anything at all, i also HOPE it's not just a PR stunt for a bit of damage control.

Yes, yes and yes, a PC user mate of mine reports corpse flushing every 2 game days yes the PS3 dosen't, I'm still looking at a corpse of a bandit I killed on day 1.

There are probably a combination of things that could be tripping up the PS3 version, I'm with you in the hope that a patch fixes it.

If it is a bunch of PR hype then Beth will probably have to close down this forum because it will explode imo.

Lol. There's no way they could close down this forum. They did this to themselves. If the patch doesn't fix this then they have to recall this broken mess.

There is no way that this isn't the save file size. They are supposed to increase in size, but not by this much. The save file contains text that merely references items and their locations, the status of events and other things regarding progress. 16kb's is about the size of a generic word document that's less than one page. In game-save terminology, that's a page of things the system must read and then actively remember and render in game. Now, a typical bethesda game like Fallout keeps track of around 2mb's of info per save without any problem but it generally stays around there. Dungeons and towns do inch it up, but by less than 50kbs per location, regardless.

In this game, the town of Riften by itself increases the save file by 300kbs. Again, think of this in terms of the size of a document that is just listing the things the system has to keep track of and not the stuff itself. Say, one line refers to an iron dagger and it's location (on an x,y,z grid). If it is a dagger a bandit dropped in a dungeon. The computer/disc has the texture and image properties and so it takes that information and places it appropriately, rendering it like it should. But it isn't just that, it is keeping track of the way the lighting is hitting it and stuff like that, keeping it ready for you to accidentally run over it and kick it down the steps. Again, this is just a few lines of what is a huge document. Things like dead bandits where you have to track their inventory and the angle their limbs are resting would be that a hundred fold.

So what does 6-15mb save files mean? A damn lot of stuff the console has to actively track and render.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1284052-i-can-verify-the-problem-and-a-temporary-solution/

I have absolutely verified the fact that it is file size. On my ps3, I have one file that is 25 hours in that is glitchy and stuttering and one file that is 40 hours in that I'm still playing. The thing is, they both branch from the same root save at 15 hours in. As I've said many times, if you limit yourself to cities you've already discovered and explore the wilderness as much as you want (without discovering new places), the file size does not increase beyond just those few lines of text indicating whatever you've added to your inventory and the open world does refresh.

Read the 360 thread...

Find a spot where there are no NPC's (a small cave that you've already cleared for instance) and which there is no light from a torch or candle that casts shadows.
Manually save once, then quit the game.
Load that save file up.
Stand in one spot, stare at a wall without moving or doing anything else.
Repeatedly save the game and look at the save file size.
It grows by about 10~15kb every time you save.

In a cave where nothing changes.
You haven't loaded any zone aside from the one you're already in.
You're staring at a texture on a wall that isn't changing.
There are no NPC's moving around to keep track of.
You haven't moved or picked up anything.
You haven't adjusted any of your inventory.
About the only thing that advances is game time.

And that increases the save file.
Which would be fine except as my save file increases in size my game has gotten less and less responsive.
Which is not fine.

Maybe it's something completely separate that is causing the PS3 problem, maybe it's not.
But if the save file bloat is the problem...

Why in the world would I go to a 360 message board to read about a ps3 problem? Haha.

My experimentation uses the scientific method. It's easily testable. You are wrong.


The file may increase while in dungeons, I don't know. I just know that it absolutely increases when you go to dungeons and new cities. If it's related to how much time you're there then that'd be something good to know!

The counter point is this. Save just outside breezehome (assuming you've purchased this). Look at the save file amount. Save in front of your bed (you'll notice a big drop just from being inside). Sleep. Save again (another drop). Repeat over and over again. After about a week all the outside will have refreshed and the save won't really diminish futher. Now, if you keep saving you'll see the kbs fluxuate up and down around the same point. The average of those save files are about where you really are (I'm at around 4.3mbs right now). If I visit a new place, that average number goes up. If I do not visit a new place then the number stays the same (I'm 40 hours in, it's been in the 4mbs since 18 hours in).

This is not related to time overall. I just haven't tried saving over and over again in a dungeon. I'd recommend now going back to breezehome and doing what I said to see if it drops back down to what it was before you went back to a dungeon you'd already cleared.

EDIT: Someone just asked me how to sleep to get their file size down, please note that sleeping and then saving indoors only really drops it once (unless future sleeping refreshes the outside environment, which would only drop it by maybe 50 kbs depending on how active you've been in areas that refresh)

The keyword there is "sleep".
My guess is while sleeping, the game does some cleaning up in the background (at least if I was programming I'd use the time to do some clean up).
I should add I rarely ever sleep or use wait.

So with repeated sleeping, the save file eventually reaches equilibrium and doesn't go up significantly or decrease significantly either.

But without sleeping, Breezehome or any other house you can buy for me increases my save file quite a bit more than in a dungeon (I'd need to check again but it was significantly greater than 10kb). Most likely because Lydia moves around as well as time flows and light changes in the house. The size of the save file increase does fluctuate, but not enough to actually register as going down, it's always a steady increase.

Maybe the answer to everything is sleep more lol.

Interesting, sleeping could be something that keeps stuff more at bay. But on my second save file, all the exploring and dungeon diving brought the average size up and sleeping could not lower it back to what it was before exploration (that's why I'm in the 4mbs and not back down around 2mbs like I should be).

Well the filesize theory was born out of it being a similar issue with previous Bethesda games wherein the memory leaks were exacerbated by the save filesize due to the finite memory limitations present in consoles.

Basically, there is a precedence for it and the new engine is so completely similar to Gamebryo that people understandable feel that it is, once again, part of the problem.

Yep everyone is beating the save file size drum, but I'm still not convinced that is the cause of it. Sure Bethesda has a bad track record with memory leaks, but this could be something totally different, that none of us understand.

If this has been an ongoing problem with Beth's games on the PS3 for years now, how can we begin to believe that a patch they worked on for a week can correct it?

Hey man, the only bandwagon I'm on is the game is broke for the PS3. I don't care if it's the game save file size, a quest I shouldn't have done that was available to do, or I simply started the game up in the first place after opening up my bought and paid for copy for the PS3.

Just fix the game and all will be well. That's the bandwagon I'm on. I didn't make it and I can't fix it. I paid someone to make it so that's who should fix it.

And, if the developers don't appreciate our input and concerns, that's their problem, IMO. If I offer any of them a faulty product and it fails (as I knew it would like they knew theirs would), I'd expect the same frustration and sentiments.

It is clearly related to save file size.

I have one save at 25 hours that is laggy and difficult with around 8 mb file saves.
I have one save that's at 40+ hours that I"m still using that is at 4 mb (4,350 specifically but it fluxuates up and down) and has no lag.

They both came from the same save at around 15-18 hours in. The only difference is the file size. Visiting dungeons and cities is what allowed me to quickly get the 8 mb one up, not visiting dungeons and cities (but playing heavily by making tons of potions and armor and enchantments) is what has maintained sustained playability.

There is no difference between the two. Here is my methodology, note the uncanny resemblence to the scientific method.

1. Define a question (i.e. why is my game messing up),
2. Observe the problem (Ah, I see that as the file size increases, the game gets laggier. Keep in mind that I have everyone that has this problem as a test case that I've observed where they all saw the same thing, their file size increased and their game got worse along with it).
3. Form a hypothesis (its because of the file size since this is affecting all ps3's, even new ones straight out of the box).
4. Test the experiment by performing an experiment and collecting data in a reprodicible manner (I took an action or multiple actions and then made a seperate save. I then reloaded the original save and performed different actions and then saved in the same place as the other one. Easy to reproduce).
5. anolyze the data (I observed the activities that increased my file size along with the choppiness of the game while playing and found that discovering new areas like Riften and dungeon delving significantly increased file size and therefore choppiness. I noted that dungeons don't appear to refresh inside regardless of wait time. I also observed that I can play on a save and maintain it in the 4mbs for 40 hours without any lagging/choppiness if I avoided those actions).
6.Interpret the data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis (if the game gets more choppy when I increase my files size but does not worsen at all if I maintain it, then the problem is directly related to my file size).
7. Publish (what I'm doing here).
8. Retest (what I do now every night when I get home and am enjoying Skyrim without lag or choppiness with a save file maintained at 4mbs while others have 15mbs of data that is making them restart every hour and ruining their machines by overtaxing them. Sadly, I am playing without dungeons or new towns, but the towns I already have and so can visit coupled with the great big outside world of Skyrim is still a lot of fun).

I test software professionally. If you come up with something that is actually verifiable that conflicts with my findings which absolutely prove that file size or activities that increase file size are the problem, then you can give your opinion. Otherwise you're just wasting time.

Sorry friend, but unless Bethesda has got you on their payroll, it's not your job to diagnose their screw up.

Thanks for your participation though. It's welcomed, but you might be wrong since you didn't code the game and all.

Doko has found that filesize has nothing to do with lag.

Doko has had lag with a 2mb game save, and no lag with 8+mb game save.

Doko has found lag is due to how much you do in a session, quitting the game fully and starting it again will usually solve this issue. Restarting and letting the ps3 cooldown if necessary (just like pc's).

Doko also will be testing sleep, and how it effects the lag issue. Doko's report will follow soon.

And this is why i skip all your posts.



Doko knows much, tell some. Doko knows many things others do not.

Doko is not entirely correct though as my first save game did not have any lag and i played it for 15 hours straight(you heard me!), then on my 3rd or 4th reinstall i had lag the minute i left the tutorial cave and it never went away.

Re-install?
Why are you re-installing the game that many times?


Anyway When Doko first got the game Doko played for a long time straight as well with no lag. Upon starting a new toon and playing for around 6-8 hours more it lagged like crazy. However simply turning the system off and coming back the next day fixed the issue. Doko never had to delete anything. Doko fears you may have a corrupt game save, causing the issues possibly?


Also if you are lagging outside the tutorial cave the issue can not possibly be game save size.

Bob Dole