Alright. This is getting stupid. WHERE IS THE NEXT PATCH AND WHERE ARE THE [censored] TOOLS. I paid good money for this game, put up with a tremendous amount of post launch BS, and am rapidly running out of [censored]s to give. This is not ID and this is not Bethesda's way of doing business. THIS IS [censored]. WTF?

Chill. It'll come when it's ready, and shouting about it won't make it come any faster. Sheesh; people these days.

You can subscribe to a few theories here.

• AMD's driver is so f---ed up that it's gonna take a hell of a lot of work to make the game compatible with it.
  
• The game itself is so f---ed up that it's gonna take a hell of a lot of work to fix what's broken.
  
• The 64-bit exe needs a hell of a lot of work to stabilize it for public release.
  
• The game tools need a hell of a lot of work to stabilize them for public release.

Whichever the case may be, it should be obvious to everyone that there is a lot of work required. When there's something worth announcing I'm certain they'll announce it; no reason not to. Until then, we can work on the basis that there's just nothing worth announcing yet.

I made a similar thread recently albeit without ranting and only explaing

I think the OP has some validity .... because they aren't doing anything, tools are done, x64 is done , there is a commercial reason they aren't being released, im too old to buy those standard excuses.


im afraid not , not in this case

The tools are ... in working condition, they didn't spent 5 years making the game without polished tools that's just not how ID operates, it doesn't how the other studios operate with broken tools. The mod tools are afaik an application called IDStudio that is completely working.

Infact ... Carmack said at quakecon:

That indicates: Tools should be working, x64 is fully operational. I have no idea what stabilitzation there is needed to be done month after release while quakecon was 2 months before release, 3 months for this stabilization.


I think there's a commercial reason for no x64. WHAT ?! Mod tools rely on it, so there's no reason to release those either.

The later people get the tools , the latter we might see the full power of IDTech5 ... time is money.

From the commercial view i don't see how release of dev tools prematurely is going to hurt anything ??? I just don't see the practical reason for the stall

It's an steamworks game ... maybe valve has put in some more stupid rules. Doom4 better not be steamworks.


Just break the TOS who cares about stupid steam and their stupid rules - just upload the x64 and mod tools to a FTP and you're ready to go. Yes im speculating, hope it helps.

-----------------------------
Maybe i am wrong, maybe they're working on something groundbreaking with the tools adding some systems for something big something awesome something revolutionary something something , and maybe they're working on a massive 5 GB megapatch which turns our console ports into PC games.

And lastly they might be rolling patch2's release right into the concurent release of super-quality texture pack or whatever.


I'll let my self be surprised and if they nail it ... all those words taken back , again speculation but what the heck else im can do right now.

----------------------------

I have ... re evaluated my speculations - i think they might be working on them to ensure ... it works right as carmack said they choosed to "incrementally upgrade on PC" (months earlier exactly this was said to be a terrible mistake by guess who, carmack)

So RAGE what we see today , is a rollout of the plan they put in place 3 years ago, and Carmack fortunately knows this plan ... was a terrible mistake , but he's rolling it out anways as there's basically no other option.

Because ladies and gentle men:

Making the game for directed at consoles and incrementally upgrade on PC: sells for consoles only
Making the game for PC and deploying on consoles: Sells great on both. (BF3 cough cough)



On the other hand ..... are we getting too demanding .... no, i might say it only sounds like it but, the statement at all is very very welcome, but


This is not disrespect , i think it's just anexiety of getting hands on it and especially preparing for it

The reason for threads like this:

• ID reputation
  
• Rage expectations very high
  
• rock solid memory of Tim Willits confirming mod tools for day 1.

It was explained a long time ago that both the tools and the 64-bit exe were not suitable for public release, because they're not stable.

That may surprise some people, but that's the way development is done the world over. While something is being built you are by definition working with unstable versions of what you're building. You don't have to scratch the surface too far to think of some perfectly reasonable explanations here. The tools may allocate 100 GB of memory up-front for example; that can't be released. The tools may crash at random points. The devs will know what causes the crash and avoid that, but it needs to be stabilized for public release.

See, it's not that difficult if you think a little before ranting or demanding.

Yet MW3 - developed for consoles - is not only taking a dump on BF3, it's wiping its [censored] with it. Theory fail.

Im not saying anything as fact. The statement just doesn't make it seem belivable as much as i am pleased they "are" coming , .... especially without ETA.

If this is true why Carmack doesn't say it him self and even throws out a screenshot that actually proves that it's not ready ... how can't they agree to a simple compromise and fix ... it doesn't cost them anything.

In the end the whole point is theres somethign to talk about in forums so game stays in scopes - if they don't want to sustain forum community i think it's a loss.

It might seem like im the bad guy but im just trying to help on the vital thing - keeping something to talk so we don't get more speculative and im can't do anything but to do just this because there's nothing else to talk.

We need something to talk so we can stop speculating the steam conspiracies why tools aren't out yet, no cheeseburger for you gabe

You can also subscribe to the theory that id wants the game to be rock solid and isn't going to release a new patch until they've triple checked it for any possible flaws. Having to wait one month for a comprehensive patch is not exactly unheard of. If you prefer buggy games with slapped together patches that just deal with the worst possible problems I can make recommendations.

I think this ship is sunk. They waited too long to do anything and honestly, that wouldn't be THAT bad if they had some sort of news for the people that bought this game on PC. Look at these forums... there's like 5 of us left posting in this ghost town (soon to be even less once Skyrim hits).

I come on here in hopes they will have the sensibility to update people but they don't. Instead these types of threads (which I have started many of) turns into a bunch of complaining (which we have the right to do) and then some mod goon shuts down the thread and doesn't say a single bit of news which could easily defuse future threads like this. So, this just leads me to believe that they have a couple people working on who knows what and they have zero idea when they will be releasing it. As for their concern with how their fan base feels, I believe the care factor is at a whopping zero.

Tomorrow, I am going to call iD and harass them for news... and possibly inform them in a very stern manner that Twitter is not a viable media source to release information.

Oh, I wish id had applied the same policy to Rage itself because it's far too unstable.

Maybe the tools did work on a 64 bit os with a 196 gigs of ram on each developer desktop and enough servers to max the power out in the building, but they may not have optimised the tools for normal desktops. I don't know, its just a possibility.

There seems to be much more stability problems with users of AMD/ATI video cards, than NVIDIA card users.
I had a few problems at release Oct.4th, until the patch came out, now all my Nvidia video cards run fine.
With only once tweak, see my post here: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1247869-why-the-game-its-still-in-the-shops/page__pid__19002349#entry19002349
also the fix and can be seen here: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1250017-anyone-getting-horizontal-transparent-lines-on-the-screen-during-gameplay/page__pid__19035503#entry19035503

are you joking, MW3 does not sell on PC , MW2 did much less than COD4 already. It's a piece of [censored] gameplay i didn't touch after COD4. all previous CODs were great but later it's just a disaster.


MW3 PC has like 85.000 preorders , while BF3 had 200.000 for PC.

MW3's commercial success is irrelevant to the PC industry.

Stewox, you are very funny. Google the internet a little bit. MW3 had the largest day-one shipments in gaming HISTORY, more than 1.5 million people at the official launch (gamespot.com and videogamer.com). BF3 was a shiny disappointment, while MW3 actually did what it promised. Still, that is not the point of this thread. The reason why this is becoming a ghost town is because people are starting to give up. I don't blame Ati at all for these problems, since I have had no issues with another game. I have been looking at the posts here since day one, but not always commenting. The only moment when a moderator actually said something was in a thread where too many people flamed and raged about this joke of a game. ID doesn't seem to care anymore, and I doubt the patch or the tools will come any time soon. Face it guys, it's too late. Just throw this junk away, think that you didn't buy it, and think twice before buying another ID/Bethesda game

MW3 is irrelevant - you are just another COD really devoted fan

gamespot is irrelevant

I am not a devoted fan, and maybe gamespot is irrelevant, but the statistics aren't. Next time you use an example, please document yourself before saying something. It's a huge leap from 85.000 to 1.5 million, don't you think? If it's irelevant, stop commenting about it, especially when you don't know the facts

Yeah chill. They released the game when it was ready...

Totally agree with Satyrn )

If there was a "LIKE" button next to that comment, I would have clicked it so hard it would have blown the left side of my mouse into a cloud of plastic mist.

Are you a mad ATI user? Do you understand that ATI's open gl drivers svck. Do you under stand that most games use DX. Do you understand Nivida works perfect on open gl games. Are you aware ATI said its not ids fault. Are you aware ATI said its their fault.

Apparently a patch just dropped for the 360 version.

Nor is the game and they released that, so there goes that theory.

Quake0, I am aware of that problem. I am also aware that the game was advertised as... how was it? Oh yes! "Best played on Radeon Graphics". Maybe it would have been best played on them if they tested the god damned video cards made by Amd... it's Amd's fault that this game was sold to the public in the alpha version, and we're just the testers that paid 60 euros each for this honor? Yea man, totally not ID's fault, let's burn AMD for this blasphemy, not modelling their videocards around a game

When its comes to video cards having support for APIs that have been out for years, blame must go to ATI drivers. Rage on the PC uses open GL 3.2. An API that has been out since August 3, 2009. I can only imagine the state open GL 4.2 on ATI drivers. Id did make a mistake. ATI video cards worked on in house test set-ups, and id did not catch driver problems in other ATI set ups. That said their is no way the gaming industry can stay held back back due to ATI incompetent driver support.

Rage runs fine with dx9 on 360, which is ancient hardware and API.
Rage runs fine with Open GL ES on PS3 which is ancient hardware and API.
Rage runs fine with open GL 3.2 with GeForce 8800 on windows. (GeForce 8800 came out in 2006)
Rage even runs fine on Linux using Wine with a with GeForce 8800. (GeForce 8800 came out in 2006)

Lets face it ATI driver support svcks. ATI's open GL drivers really svck. The latest Intel integrated graphics drivers have even passed up ATIs support for open GL. Rival hardware that that is over 5 years old can run rage with their drivers. Its also not like this is a problem only with rage. ATI's open GL drivers have svcked since all he way back 2004. I think after open gl 1.2 they just half ass driver support. At this point ATI needs to step it up or just go under like the rest of the video card makers. Nivida and Intel are more then enough to keep competition alive. Espesaly when we start moving more into integrated graphics.

Ehh, no. None of that is even remotely true. Advertised as "best played on Radeon graphics"? No, you just made that up. Yes, they did test on AMD hardware and they knew that there would be problems. That's why there was an AMD driver release at the same time as the game, but AMD just went and packaged the wrong driver. This is a matter of public record, you can't deny it even if you wanted to. The game sold was not an alpha version; the game sold works perfectly well on hardware that supports OpenGL properly. http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1254667-intel-hd-graphics-driver-update-for-rage/. It's AMD that can't get their OpenGL support right.

You don't model video cards around a game (that much, I'll give you credit for, is correct) but similarly you shouldn't have to model a game around video cards. What you do is take a standard (which is what OpenGL is) then you model both the game and video cards around that standard. If the game follows the standard correctly, and if the video cards do so too, then the game will work. That's the whole point of having standards. Rage works on video cards that support OpenGL properly, id have a 15-year proven track record of knowing what they're doing with OpenGL, John Carmack himself probably knows it better than any other game developer on the planet today, whereas AMD and ATI before them have a proven track record of really really bad OpenGL support. If AMD fail to support a standard properly, if AMD hardware causes problems with other programs (including those not made by id) it suddenly becomes id's fault? No way. Remember: id had to remove UBOs from Rage because they didn't work on AMD hardware; now this is a core OpenGL feature that AMD are supposed to support. Yet they don't. And id did work around it (at a performance cost to everybody else too.) How do you square that with your claims that id never bothered to test on AMD hardware? Oh yeah, you can't.

Over the next week the 11.11 AMD drivers will be out, which AMD state will fix all Rage problems (assuming that they manage to package them correctly this time). And, incidentally, my betting is that this is at least one of the reasons why Patch 2 and the tools are being delayed at this stage - id are waiting to see if AMD get their drivers right before releasing them.