I know there are a lot of very good artists here. I've seen the posts and the links to pictures - so I know you guys are around here.

Let's say a complete noob wants to jump on board with pencil sketching as a hobby. This person isn't very good at art - doesn't have much of an eye for it, and draws like a 4-5 year old for the most part.

What would you suggest for them to learn how to sketch? There are so many websites, and so many different techniques and things to learn that it gets a little hard to know who to listen to, who to avoid, and where to really start.

When I talk about pencil art - I'm talking about black and white pencil sketches like this:

http://www.chinatoday.com/art/pencil.sketching.hutong/yandai_xiejie.jpg (edit: forgot you can't post images here).

Now - obviously I'm not expecting to be able to do that - but I'd like to jump on board and try to become a decent sketcher. I just think it would be a fun hobby, something I could do with my kids as they get older, and hopefully get decent enough to even expand a bit and be able to come up with good enough art to put on my walls. I love when I visit someone's house and they've got art up that I enjoy, and when I ask them, it turns out they did it themselves. I think it would be pretty cool to be able to teach my kids as they grow up a bit too. My uncle would come over once a week and water paint with me. I svcked at it then (and still do), but it was always fun.

So can someone help guide me in a starting direction. Maybe just what pencils to grab - erasers - paper type - what to begin with and what techniques to develop.

Well, step one is to just start drawing.

(Seriously, though - it's an obvious one, but it is the most important thing. Like anything, you're going to want to at the very least start building up some muscle memory; and only experience is going to give you an insight into the other considerations you'll be taking into account.)

Taking any kind of intro to drawing or art class is also probably going to be of benefit to you. Most community colleges have some pretty good intro classes for fairly cheap. (There's also - depending on where you live - likely to be some cheap workshops and the like that you can get into.) Just getting a few fundamentals down early on is going to pay off a lot in the end. And the earlier you start to think about concepts like composition, etc, the better.

It's cheesey (and these days even a little hacky,) but what really broke some ground for me when I was starting out trying to learn how to draw (and this goes for any kind of drawing) was How to Draw the Marvel Way. I don't really use all that much of it in my own technique these days, but it was really helpful to me just starting out, and gave me a lot of good "tricks" to get me started with the fundamentals (even simple things like working out perspective, etc.) You can probably pick up a copy for real cheap (I believe it's still in print.)

Barring any of that, I do have a couple of specific tips that I recommend right away:

Learn about gesture drawing, thumbnails, etc. Probably one of the most common "beginner 'mistakes'" is the tendency to start out drawing just one part of a scene at a time. (The classic example is - when drawing a face, a lot of beginners will draw one eye, work on getting it looking just right, and only then move on to, say, the other eye. Then the nose, etc.)

What you really want to be doing is drawing the entire scene at once (if that makes any sense.) Start out really general. For example, in that pic you linked to - you'd want to get just the basic outline of the buildings, the people, the bicycle, etc first. Just rough everything out to begin with (as practice, see how much you can draw in 30 seconds, keeping it as rough as possible. Do it multiple times for each scene. Let it be messy, and worry about it being perfect. You want to start each scene by just worrying about getting everything roughly where you want it on the page.

From there, you can just work on getting more and more specific. Make sure the proportions to everything look right, etc. If you start out rough and general and then work your way up to more specific and refined, it's easier to make big changes early on. (Think of it like writing an essay, or constructing a building. You start out an essay by writing an outline and then filling in the paragraphs. You make a building by marking out the area, building a foundation, putting up it's skeleton, etc.) Start rough, and work on the detail once you've got everything roughed-out.

And keep moving around the page. If you get bogged down in one area, or it doesn't seem to be working right, or you're just having trouble with it - just move your focus somewhere else. Another good exercise is to a timer for five minutes. Start it when you start working on the detail in one area, and when the timer goes off, just go somewhere else.

Lastly, though - just have fun!

Ok different pencils have difference hardness, lightness or darkness like say a 6b pencil, f pencil is hard and light, hb is an inbetween, getting to know what pencils will give you shades, is a good start and then id go somewhere a building, a landscape, and just attempt to draw it look at the shadows and the light and just try to imitate it, i never learnt to draw or paint from a school, i did it by eye and hand, i still dont have it right, but its the enjoyment of doing it, and in alot of cases the fact that you taught yourself can give you alot of satisfaction, most times school teach you alot of technical information, which can bog you down when all you want to do is put pencil to paper.

You say you draw like a 4-5 year old, well we all started somewhere, even if you can draw like a 4-5 year old then just keep trying, but sometimes people have a talent for some things, sometimes some do but some dont, but dont get discouraged and try.

Also you can get some decent technical/style books which will tell you what tools to get and i mean pencils, erasers so on, my collection is 80 books and counting, and thats not counting art books.

Like my esteemed fellows above said, there is one main thing you should do to become good at pencil art, and that is practice, practice, practice. Some will tell you you should begin by drawing cubes and globes and the like, and then slowly evolve, but I think it's better to start off by doing what you like doing, you can always go back and brush up on the basics later. Starting with things you like will help you develop a love for your craft, and of all the things you need to become good, love for your craft is the only one you absolutely, crucially need.

Don't get too discouraged when you can't do the things you want to do right away. It will take time, but if you persist, and keep enjoying what you do, you will become a good artist, and this is important: DO NOT LET ANYONE TELL YOU YOU'RE NOT CUT OUT FOR ART. Don't believe the myth that artistic ability is something you have to be 'born with'. You'll notice that the people spreading that shameful lie are always the people who couldn't draw a decent piece to save their lives. I keep hearing this tripe, no matter what kind of art it's about. "You need to be born with it". Don't believe that, it's utter and complete rubbish, used by quitters to justify their giving-up, and often wielded out of jealousy against someone who's practicing and becoming good at something they wish they'd pursued. The only thing you need to be born with is a love for art and the desire to make it - anything else can be learned.

A good artist knows better: talent is nothing else than a small head start, but practice and skill are what make you a good artist, and if you keep at it, and keep loving what you do (though you may hate it at times), you will be good at it some day. It won't always feel that way - you'll see beautiful pieces of art and think you'll never be able to make something that good, but the truth is, YES YOU WILL IF YOU KEEP AT IT.

I personally feel that you shouldn't start by going to art classes. Art classes can do a lot for you, but only once you've mastered the basics, have an idea of what you can/want to do, and know what you need help in. If you start attending classes without the basics, you'll be lost and get discouraged. Build some skill yourself first so you have some baggage to bring. If you feel yourself hitting a ceiling, that's when you should start going to classes. I never attended a single art class and my drawings are... well, not bad I suppose.

As for pencils, well, I know ms. trixyblue above uses a wide array of pencils, and many artists will doubtless do the same, but if you're unsure of how to choose your pencils, start with sticking to a normal 2B one. Anything below that is too hard, and is suited for technical drawing (or possibly very light sketching), but not for art. Definitely stay away from anything that has a H on it. If you find yourself needing more darks, pick up a 4B or a 6B or even an 8B, but personally, I only use a single 2B pencil, and I can shade as darkly as I want to, so different pencils may not even be necessary to you.

Landscapes aren't my strong point, so I probably won't be able to help much with those, but nu_clear_day's advice (and all the advice in this thread so far really) is solid. Keep your pencil moving. If you get stuck somewhere, don't get frustrated, just move your pencil somewhere else and draw there, and return to the other part when your mood's changed. If you're really stuck, stop and take a break. Leaving a drawing overnight can make you look at it in a completely different way and give you new insights so you can continue work with fresh energy.

Oh, and one more thing, you want to learn how not to svck, well I'm sorry. Paradoxically, if you're a good artist, you will forever svck. If you're not sure what I mean, let me explain: it's only beginners who think they know it all. The serious artist knows there is always room to improve, and if you're a good artist, you'll keep seeing things in your own work that need improving. That's what drives an artist to become better at his craft. So be proud of what you do, but know you will never, ever be perfect.

Should you have some works you'd like to show and get some pointers on, I heartily welcome you to the http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1204425-esf-artistry-thread/page__fromsearch__1 where we have some damn impressive artists who'll be happy to help you get better!

get 'drawing on the right side of the brain', it's an excellent book. I can do decent portraits when before reading it and doing the exercises I was doing stick figures badly.

It does contain a lot of unsubstantiated 'science' so my tip would be take it with a grain of salt, but keep doing the exercises and it'll work wonders.

Like some already said, draw everyday. Practice.

Save your drawings each day. Draw everyday for say 30 min. to an hour and then in six months pull out your drawings from the first month and compare them to your most recent and you will see marked improvement.

What she said ^.

A 2b is one good to start with, and you can learn how to shade yourself, nobody taught me to shade, i learnt by trial and error since i was a child, if anything art classes wasted alot of my time, because they didnt teach me what i wanted to learn, and i stuck with what interested me the most and concentrated on that, but the joy of learning something new yourself is the best part, when your doing things you couldnt, and you just keep on learning and it just gets more interesting.

Nu Clear Day has given you excellent advice.

I picked up a copy of "Drawing The Marvel Way" for my daughter when she started getting into the X-Men.

The trouble with drawing is that you will not draw what you see.

You need to draw with the right hand side of your brain.

What happens with most of us is that we see an image but when we go to draw it the left hand side of the brain takes over and says "Oh... you're trying to draw a person... that's ok... I know what they look like... I'll draw it for you".

And so you end up with a distorted image.

A great excercise to overcome this natural tendancy is to draw without looking at your paper.

Do this as an excercise on a daily basis. Have the paper in front of you and draw what you see without ever looking at the image you are drawing.

This prevents the left hand side of your brain from intervening and "telling you what to draw".

This is just a small tip.

As mentioned above Nu Clear Day has given you the best advice and any decent drawing class should have you performing this excercise anyways.

Az

To reply as a whole to each response - thank you for the in-depth replies.

I'm actually going to make a little list and kind of go over it and get some things together. Unfortunately, taking a class isn't a viable option for me now - too much going on that I can't even be sure I'd be able to make a set schedule.

I've always had problems getting started with things, and practicing properly. I'm the guy who's played guitar for 20 years and can't play a solo, name the notes without thinking about them, or even accurately hit a power chord without having to look. I've just always messed around and never done the right things to progress.

Lots of good advice in here that I'll try to nail down and hopefully have something to show for it at some point. I've always enjoyed painting and drawing, but I was never very good at it, so I just kind of gave it up - but I'd like to jump into it now and try to make a real go at learning and progressing.

I'm not a firm believer in the whole "left-side/right-side of the brain" thing (that is to say, that theory is highly simplified and not always accurate), but that is true. If you feel yourself not being able to get your drawing right, it'll help to look at your model while you draw instead of your paper. That'll help you draw the model rather than your brain's incoorect suggestion of how your model should look.

As has been mentioned and we cannot stress this enough. Practice!! Muscle memory and compositional skills are developed not gained. I will post more when I'm not on a mobile device.