Any evidence of Imperial resistance against the Thalmor? : V - Skyrim

» Wed May 16, 2012 2:28 pm

If the Thalmor attack all the way, they will be killing humans and Talos worshippers at the same time. There are two things that might happen if they do this.

Firstly, it might be possible for the remaining humans to increase their worship of Talos in hope of salvation. This might work out and make the Concordat look the worse choice. Talos might even incarnate and help win the war and rebuild a new Empire.

Secondly, it might be possible for the remaining humans to lose faith in Talos. The possibility of such a thing is evident in how people lost faith in the Nine Divines when the Daedra attacked during the Oblivion Crisis, even Martin Septim himself. If this happens, Talos and the other gods will weaken as the Thalmor invade. He will not be able to save the humans and eventually Talos and Humanity will both be destroyed in a single sweep by the Thalmor. This makes the Concordat look like the better option.

The fact is, to push the attack is costly and risky. This way, there's no risk, very little cost. All they have to do is be patient. It's a win-win for them.

» Wed May 16, 2012 4:25 pm

We are in agreement. As an Imperial I do not fight for the Emperor, but for the Empire itself. I wouldn't shed a tear if Medes fell down and died, it would hopefully allow someone better on the throne, but I won't let the Empire fall into chaos, not to the Stormcloaks or the Thalmor.

You can say all you like that you don't fight for the Emperor, but you do. Those of us whom you are fighting just want to see a new man on the throne, namely Ulfric, a much more worthy leader. You oppose us only to prevent that. You oppose us only in support of your Emperor. It sounds pious and righteous to say what you have said, but the fact is, anyone who seeks the death of your Emperor will be guilty of treason and you are bound to hunt him down and kill him.

» Wed May 16, 2012 6:17 pm

Ya got me... The elves were never that strong in the past, but I guess they grew in strength as provinces made themselves independent and turned inward, leaving Cyrodiil to fend for itself against the Altmer and Bosmer. Very nice of them *sarcasm*.

And Talos is very important to all races of Men, Imperials included, maybe even especially. I suspect most all would continue to worship him in private even if forced to deny him in public.

To agree to that treaty, this current Emperor or whichever one signed the treaty must be TES Nero because he seems cartoonishly stupid and evil to think outlawing Talos will save him. Or the Thalmor have secretly installed Jagar Tharn Mk II to usurp the Empire and the real Mede is sitting in Oblivion somewhere like in Arena.

Elves were never that....?

Tiber Septim had to have the power of Numidium (brass god) to aid him in defeating the High Elves! The High Elves are scary powerful! This empire hasn't got a fraction of what it would take to defeat them!

» Wed May 16, 2012 8:37 am

Elves were never that....?

Tiber Septim had to have the power of Numidium (brass god) to aid him in defeating the High Elves! The High Elves are scary powerful! This empire hasn't got a fraction of what it would take to defeat them!

I guess your referring to Daggerfall with the Numidium, maybe they were powerful back then too. I remember reading some lore that said the Legions could easily beat back the elves back until recent times. They scoffed at the thought of the elves beating the whole of the Empire and even created the nickname the "Old Mary Dominion". Now I'm not certain when this was, perhaps I'm mistaken.

» Wed May 16, 2012 12:54 pm

I guess your referring to Daggerfall with the Numidium, maybe they were powerful back then too. I remember reading some lore that said the Legions could easily beat back the elves back until recent times. They scoffed at the thought of the elves beating the whole of the Empire and even created the nickname the "Old Mary Dominion". Now I'm not certain when this was, perhaps I'm mistaken.

daggerfall was 28 years earlier than oblivion making it 228 years between daggerfall and skyrim.
altmer can live a lot longer than that so the thalmor from back then are most likely the same thalmor we see in skyrim.
my guess is that they've been planning this ever since their defeat all those years ago.

» Wed May 16, 2012 5:13 am

What threat did the Thalmor have over the Empire in order to push that demand through?

The Thalmor were going to win the war against the Empire; it was that or military defeat for the Empire.

» Wed May 16, 2012 9:43 am

The Thalmor were going to win the war against the Empire; it was that or military defeat for the Empire.

Ummm, no, they already were militarily defeated. They surrendered.

» Wed May 16, 2012 10:46 am

The only possible way to defeat the Thalmor would be if all men united. It's impossible to reach the Summerset Isles though, as the Altmer have the best navy and the Psijics on their side.

There's one other way that the Thalmor can be defeated...Akavir. The Akaviri have already shown that they can manipulate the weather to destroy an entire fleet, like they did when the Empire tried to invade Akavir. Also, during Oblivion, you kept hearing rumors that the Nerevarine traveled to Akavir, and hasn't been seen since. What you bet the odds are that he comes back to Tamriel with an Akaviri army in tow? His presence would also likely to cause the Dunmer that are backing the Thalmor to revolt, since the Nerevarine is one of their heroes of legend. The Empire was once ruled by Akaviri Potentates as well, so it may be possible for the Empire to form an alliance with the Akaviri, since afterall, the Thalmor want to commit genocide against every non-elf race.

» Wed May 16, 2012 7:17 am

Ummm, no, they already were militarily defeated. They surrendered.

Stupid question: When did this happen? In that book that came out?

» Wed May 16, 2012 8:22 am

Something that is worth mentioning is that no one outside of the Thalmor (and possibly not outside its inner circle) knows anything about the "genocide all non mer" thing. It's entirely possible that to some humans the promise of peace order and stability to be gained from a Cyrodil-Aldmeri alliance looks , on the surface to be a good thing.

» Wed May 16, 2012 7:07 am

Something that is worth mentioning is that no one outside of the Thalmor (and possibly not outside its inner circle) knows anything about the "genocide all non mer" thing. It's entirely possible that to some humans the promise of peace order and stability to be gained from a Cyrodil-Aldmeri alliance looks , on the surface to be a good thing.

Yes but the banning of Talos is already known, since they're living it out.

» Wed May 16, 2012 3:44 am

Yes but the banning of Talos is already known, since they're living it out.

True, but from the sound of things the Empire got their ass firmly handed to them by the Aldemeri Dominion I'm not saying that this applies across the board but there are no doubt some Imperials who see the outlawing of Talos worship (always something of a niche cult anyway) to be well worth peace and a new "ally"

» Wed May 16, 2012 5:20 am

True, but from the sound of things the Empire got their ass firmly handed to them by the Aldemeri Dominion I'm not saying that this applies across the board but there are no doubt some Imperials who see the outlawing of Talos worship (always something of a niche cult anyway) to be well worth peace and a new "ally"

We did not get our asses handed to us, our Emperor was just a coward and didn't want to take the Thalmor head on.

» Wed May 16, 2012 7:43 pm

We did not get our asses handed to us, our Emperor was just a coward and didn't want to take the Thalmor head on.

From uesp: "Years later, in the Fourth Era the Thalmor reunited the Aldmeri Dominion. Out of all of his enemies, Titus Mede never managed to defeat the Thalmor"

granted this is pretty sparse information but it certainly implies that there were battles which the Empire lost and rather than risk conquest they sued for peace. Generally speaking you don't allow foreign agents into your empire and allow them to hunt down and kill your citizens unless those foreign agents have SIGNIFICANT power to make things unpleasant for you if you don't comply.

» Wed May 16, 2012 7:38 pm

always something of a niche cult anyway

No more than the rest of the pagan cult(ures).

» Wed May 16, 2012 10:11 am

Stupid question: When did this happen? In that book that came out?

No, it was about 30 years ago. The Great War, they call it. You'll find out about it in the game.

» Wed May 16, 2012 5:42 am

No, it was about 30 years ago. The Great War, they call it. You'll find out about it in the game.

It is actually mentioned in the books.

» Wed May 16, 2012 10:55 am

Wait a minute...Aren't the Thalmor the the old Aldmeri Dominion (the Altmer and Bosmer)?

» Wed May 16, 2012 6:47 am

Wait a minute...Aren't the Thalmor the the old Aldmeri Dominion (the Altmer and Bosmer)?

Yes, the Thalmor were a political group started in Valenwood and with the weakening of the empire they reformed the old Aldmeri Dominion (which in its first incarnation was ruled by a king)

» Wed May 16, 2012 10:38 am

So...the more I play, the more I realize that the Empire is Old Mary's little [censored].

http://i44.tinypic.com/295pfgz.jpg

Edit: Interesting fact, you can aid this guy hunt down Talos worshippers.

» Wed May 16, 2012 7:31 am

The Empire is a puppet state of the Aldmeri Dominion. Dont try to find signs of enemity. Thats precisely why the Nords are rioting.

I'm with you. The Cyrods were a weak empire even before the oblvivion crisis -- witness all the bandits around major cities, the mention of the providences being restive for years by Ocato, and so on. The cyrodillic empire wis probably much like the USSR -- from the top, it might have looked good, but in reality the states were practically independent nations and left at the earliest opportunity.

» Wed May 16, 2012 2:51 pm

You know, I never actually thought about that..Nerevarine IS in Akavir..

Nords + Dunmer + Snake people thingies Vs the Thalmor? :3!