Your Broken Quests Will Stay Broken

Post » Wed May 16, 2012 6:13 pm

The patch can only keep quests from breaking in the first place. It can not examine and manually edit everyone's saved games. There is NO way it could possibly do that. If a quest is broken in your save it will probably stay broken. If it's a very important quest, start a new game. I don't know how many posts I've seen where 'X quest was broken and I still can't finish it'. How is the patch supposed to know the exact order you did everything in and how exactly your specific game experience broke that quest just by looking at your save file? The game only knows what stage of the quest you are on now, and if a previous stage was skipped or mishandled or whatever it has no way of knowing. Hopefully this will be explained with the patch notes and we can see an end to these posts.
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Melung Chan
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 6:57 am

There is NO way it could possibly do that.

Yes it could.
I work for a software house, and we constantly release updates to our software, which at the end of the patch always goes through and validates/updates the data.

The validation just needs to know what quests you are on or have completed, and then check the status of relevant items and locations.
It doesn't matter if you've been somewhere else inbetween.

When you finish "Quest A" the dagger will be "somewhere" and not in the chest at "somewhere"
On "Quest B" - part2 If you have item "box of crabs" then Part 2 should be "completed" as you have "box of crabs"

The game stores and tracks all these. So a quest condition has failed for some reason. The validation routine can just loop through your quests.

Simples
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Karl harris
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 7:46 am

Yes it could.
I work for a software house, and we constantly release updates to our software, which at the end of the patch always goes through and validates/updates the data.

Does your company's software use the same quest system as Skyrim?
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George PUluse
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 7:57 pm

Does your company's software use the same quest system as Skyrim?

of course not, what mad unlogical planet are you from?

Maths is Maths
Programming is Programming

The methodology of conditional statements, and the storage of data via pointers and counters is universal.
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Peter P Canning
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 12:34 pm

when for instands a person wont move to a location it should be going to, it can easily be patched..-.-
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Gemma Flanagan
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 2:11 pm

when for instands a person wont move to a location it should be going to, it can easily be patched..-.-

You might be stuffed in that situation.
If you were suposed to be zoomed to a location at the time of an event, and you've progressed since..
yeah in that situation you may be borked.

unless they loop through "location availablity conditions"... so if you have passed "this event" then "this location" should now be available.
but might mean you have missed the cut-scene etc
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m Gardner
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 4:41 pm

of course not, what mad unlogical planet are you from?

Maths is Maths
Programming is Programming

The methodology of conditional statements, and the storage of data view pointers and counters is universal.

Ok, but the issue of broken quests has to do with how and when the quest stage was triggered, in what order in relation to other actions, etc. The information about what stages have been triggered would be stored, but I don't think it's very likely that the rest of the relevant information is available. Feel free to correct me, as I'm not a programmer. I just have some idea how these broken quests happen in Elder Scrolls games.
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Steph
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 12:17 pm

Yes it could.
I work for a software house, and we constantly release updates to our software, which at the end of the patch always goes through and validates/updates the data.

The validation just needs to know what quests you are on or have completed, and then check the status of relevant items and locations.
It doesn't matter if you've been somewhere else inbetween.

When you finish "Quest A" the dagger will be "somewhere" and not in the chest at "somewhere"
On "Quest B" - part2 If you have item "box of crabs" then Part 2 should be "completed" as you have "box of crabs"

The game stores and tracks all these. So a quest condition has failed for some reason. The validation routine can just loop through your quests.

Simples

Don't be so silly, PS3 patches do not alter gamesaves on a users PS3 in terms of content...that would be sucidial.

So no it will NEVER happen on a PS3, it CAN be done but WILL NEVER be done.
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Bereket Fekadu
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 11:27 am

of course not, what mad unlogical planet are you from?

Maths is Maths
Programming is Programming

The methodology of conditional statements, and the storage of data view pointers and counters is universal.
The problem is that the game may not know where quest glitches have occurred. Since you have such a high-degree of freedom in the game, this means you can do stupid stuff and it's still part of "your" game.

If you can accurately identify the problem, then you can often fix it. This is why stuff like work flow programs have check points to keep track of where it's broken. The thing is, Skyrim is so large that actively tracking things like this would eventually flood the system with data just like the bug is currently doing. So something of this scope (most likely more complex than the stuff you're working with, since games are generally more complex than most other software developing) can't really track down the problems as easily.
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Nina Mccormick
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 8:14 am

Don't be so silly, PS3 patches do not alter gamesaves on a users PS3 in terms of content...that would be sucidial.

So no it will NEVER happen on a PS3, it CAN be done but WILL NEVER be done.

Unless the patch creates a new option (and routine) in the game menu called "Check/Fix Quest status" for example.
Then it would not break the conditions and allow people to check the status and or fix their save files.
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Julie Serebrekoff
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 5:19 pm

The problem is that the game may not know where quest glitches have occurred. Since you have such a high-degree of freedom in the game, this means you can do stupid stuff and it's still part of "your" game.

If you can accurately identify the problem, then you can often fix it. This is why stuff like work flow programs have check points to keep track of where it's broken. The thing is, Skyrim is so large that actively tracking things like this would eventually flood the system with data just like the bug is currently doing. So something of this scope (most likely more complex than the stuff you're working with, since games are generally more complex than most other software developing) can't really track down the problems as easily.

Whether it CAN or CANNOT be done is IRRELEVANT....

It is NEVER done like this on ANY games console or PC for that matter, 99% of patches DO NOT look inside a savefile and alter the contents....

Most patches simply fix the code in th game to stop the bug in the first place...
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Eibe Novy
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 11:15 am

Unless the patch creates a new option (and routine) in the game menu called "Check/Fix Quest status" for example.
Then it would not break the conditions and allow people to check the status and or fix their save files.

I keep saying this...that is not how patching is done and will never be....companies MOSTLY NEVER do that..they simply fix how it breaks in the first place!
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Causon-Chambers
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 8:49 am

I may have made a mistake in stating that it was 'impossible' (although I believe that lightknight's assessment re: the handling of quest information above is likely accurate), but I maintain that it is an unrealistic expectation for the patch.
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He got the
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 7:34 pm

Whether it CAN or CANNOT be done is IRRELEVANT....

It is NEVER done like this on ANY games console or PC for that matter, 99% of patches DO NOT look inside a savefile and alter the contents....

Most patches simply fix the code in th game to stop the bug in the first place...

Well maybe they should have an option. It is certainly possible.

The mechanics of storing quests, items and locations and their progress, has been much the same since the old "type Go North" adventure games.
I've written a few (not as pretty as skyrim though lol)

Also on the PC you can fix broken quests, locations yourself via a console command.
If this is a port of a PC game, then that functionality is probably still there behind the scenes.
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Jade Payton
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 6:00 am

Do does this mean Alea the huntress will forever be standing outside jorrvaskur endlessley repeating: "these two arent a problem anymore". And I cant initiate the Purity of Revenge quest?
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Sunnii Bebiieh
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 5:06 pm

Well maybe they should have an option. It is certainly possible.

The mechanics of storing quests, items and locations and their progress, has been much the same since the old "type Go North" adventure games.
I've written a few (not as pretty as skyrim though lol)

Also on the PC you can fix broken quests, locations yourself via a console command.
If this is a port of a PC game, then that functionality is probably still there behind the scenes.

From the Oblivion wiki 'SetStage' command description:

Notes:
It is not possible to undo this command. So, for example, if you type SetStage MQ03 20 by mistake (instead of MQ02), there is no way to reverse that command and make the game think that you have not started MQ03. In particular, SetStage MQ03 0 will have no effect. Overall, it is not possible to decrease a quest's stage. So even entering SetStage MQ03 10 would not change the quest stage (e.g., GetStage MQ03 would still return 20, not 10).
Internally, the game has flags that keep track of the status of each individual quest stage. So the command SetStage MQ03 20 does not set a "stage" variable to 20; it actually sets the "stagedone" variable for MQ03 stage 20 to true (or 1). The command GetStage MQ03 just figures out which is the highest numbered stage that has been flagged as done, and returns that number. There is no known way to directly alter the "stagedone" variables, which is why it is impossible to undo a setstage command.
Some game scripts are based upon the the overall quest stage (i.e., the value returned by GetStage); other scripts are based upon whether or not specific stages have been done (i.e., the value returned by GetStageDone). Therefore, skipping ahead in a quest, for example by entering SetStage MQ03 100 can have unpredictable effects, because the individual stages of the quest are not marked as complete. Also, there are invariably many other scripts that are supposed to get executed as a quest progresses; skipping ahead in a quest will not cause any of the other scripts to be run. It may subsequently be impossible to ever reproduce the missing events using the console. Therefore indiscriminate use of this command can lead to permanently bugged games.

So, if a quest stage has been prematurely triggered (as is the case for many of the broken quests), the console can not be used to 'un-trigger' it. So it's not that simple.

Edit: Given, this is from the Oblivion wiki, but I think it's pretty likely that this aspect of the game hasn't changed much.
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Rachael
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 6:21 am

Whether it CAN or CANNOT be done is IRRELEVANT....

It is NEVER done like this on ANY games console or PC for that matter, 99% of patches DO NOT look inside a savefile and alter the contents....

Most patches simply fix the code in th game to stop the bug in the first place...
Yep, I never disagreed with that. I was explaining to the other poster why it isn't really viable in this case and not the same as anything found in typical software.

The poster indicated that there was no difference between skyrim and the type of software they work on because math is apparently equal to math. I just corrected them with the equivalent of saying physics is not equal to addition.
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Barbequtie
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 6:38 pm

Yep, I never disagreed with that. I was explaining to the other poster why it isn't really viable in this case and not the same as anything found in typical software.

The poster indicated that there was no difference between skyrim and the type of software they work on because math is apparently equal to math. I just corrected them with the equivalent of saying physics is not equal to addition.

Yeah I agree with you, I quoted the wrong post...
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Jonathan Egan
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 6:11 am

Yeah I agree with you, I quoted the wrong post...
Ah, that makes a lot more sense! Understood.
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Justin Bywater
 
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