played today for 45 minutes and my lag came back with a vengeance.

It's now totally unplayable and not only that.

NOW aswel as the game breaking (yes it really is) lag, i now have the following issues that where not present pre-patch.

Waterfalls have a ugly flat texture and they are frozen until i get close then they suddenly burst into life and look ok.

Entire chunks of landscape, Mountains, Groups of trees, Buildings, Deer, Wolves, Mammoths now just suddenly 'appear' right infront of me when im exploring.

Dragons now fly backwards at the speed of light and get stuck in mountains.

Just to verify that the save game files where not causing problems i copied them to a usb stick and deleted them from my ps3, i also deleted the patch and the game files and started completely from scratch, re-installed the files - downloaded the patch and started a completely fresh game.

Lag is evident from the start. (though not bad, it's still unnaceptable)
Chunks of landscape, trees, mammoths etc STILL just suddenly appear in front of me.
Waterfalls are still ugly and frozen untill i get close.
'Random' Dragons STILL fly backwards at sonic speeds and get wedged in mountains.

So in conclusion, the patch that you released to fix the lag has made the whole game 10x worse.....Seriously - Well Done thats quite an achievment.

For the love of god it painfully clear that your devs have absolutely no idea how the ps3 works so why don't you hand the game over to a company that does, And let them patch it for us.

I can only think of ONE other company that needs to release patches to FIX there other patches ands it pretty clear to us that you are allready in bed with that company.

Your QC standards are nothing short of disgusting.

pc version of dead island had the wrong version released complete with debug modes active etc. thats worse than this.

dark and light mmo for pc had to have multiple rollbacks daily because each patch broke more than it fixed.

so, yeah, beth isnt the worse when it comes to releases.
i blame the machine for being so strangely non standard. even the psone was the same. a simple routine to fade the background colour from one colour to another took a couple pages of code!
yeah, good stuff.

Dev's job: Creating something and then fixing problems with it that are presented to them and given priority over other issues in their queue.

Project Management's job: Prioritizing the issues in the queue.

QA's job: Finding and verifying issues to give to project management for prioritization

It isn't Dev's fault. Besides, the game they created is so epic that people are still playing the game on ps3 despite the problems.

Think of this scenario: Perhaps they found the issue but did not realize how quickly it would become a problem. Perhaps along with it, they found 30 other issues that needed addressing but could be fixed in the same amount of time as this first one. In addition to that, ps3 owners have been left behind with Bethesda games and patches before so they didn't want to delay the game behind 360/pc versions and perhaps they expected the turn around before this issue happened to anyone.

So the project managers decided to not delay the game for the one major issue and to get the developers to work on the 30 other issues that were immediately problematic.

This was most likely all a series of calculated risks that just went wrong somewhere along the way.

no.....just no

thats the same old tired argument that everybody uses, other devs can use the ps3 just fine but bethesda have never been able to, t6hank god they outsourced oblivion to a different dev.

I get tired of pointing this out, but you can't compare other developers to Bethesda. No one has ever done anything comparable to scale and complexity that Bethesda seems to pop out of their machine every couple of years. You can't point to games that are the rail shooter equivalent in comparison to such a game as this.

Did you see my reference to Oblivion in my post?
A Bethesda game ported by a different company and works perfect....point made.

Oblivion had more than its fair share of bugs as well. Nothing as widespread and annoying as this framerate issue that Skyrim has had, but it still had plenty of problems that had to be patched. Any game of this size and complexity is going to take multiple patches to get fully polished, regardless of which company actually does the porting.

Agreed but based on the problems with fallout, its highly likely that Bethesda knew this would happen before the game was released but got your money so don't care.

And a patch is supposed to fix problems....not add several new ones.

That was a different game, less complex than skyrim by far (but still more complex than most games made this year, surprisingly enough, it seems Bethesda is in it's own league, it's so good).

These games are where the complexity started signficantly stepping it up.

Nobody can deny that Bethesda make fantastic games....Skyrim is outstanding as was morrowind,oblivion and fallout 3.

But there constant problems with the ps3 are unacceptable when people are paying full price.

And based on previous games It's quite likely that Skyrim will never be sufficiently patched on the PS3.

inFAMOUS 1 and 2, Just Cause 2, Uncharted 1, 2, and 3, Assassin's Creed 1, 2, Brotherhood, and Revelations, Batman:Arkham City, Grand Theft Auto 3 and 4, Red Dead Redemption, L.A. Noire, and Dead Island all say "hi".

Red Dead from Rockstar? LA Noire from Bondi? Dragon Age from Bioware? inFamous from svcker Punch? Dead Island from Techland? Fable 3 from Lionhead?
Of course Fable is only on 360 / PC so maybe that's not a good example.

All those games had bugs. In Dead Island's case it had several critical game breaking bugs from the get go.
Bethesda's no different from other developers, they're not special or should be exempt from owning up to problems with their game(s).

In an age where even the set-in-stone troglodytes of the NHL use video replay to describe in-detail why a suspension has been handed out, in an age where it's never been easier to communicate with your user base, it's disappointing how little information we receive from Bethesda on the PS3 issue.

The PS3 version of RAGE was probably the best version when it was released and that was a bethesda game.
Crazy idea, but why don't they let John Carmack take a look at the skyrim engine. That guy is a freaking genius. If he can't fix it, no one can.

You know what's worrisome is that so many independent developers throughout the years don't often get licensed as developers by the big three, and then a company like Bethesda comes along, releases multiple games that have crippling bugs in them and gets licensed easily. How can Sony keep licensing a company that is releasing games over and over again like this? Although I can see a massive lawsuit if Bethesda doesn't fix this game, I think we all need to send official complaints straight to Sony as well for this catastrophe. The PS3 version was obviously not play tested, and Sony should not have licensed it.

I see a lot of people saying they want to trade in their copies for the xbox and pc version of the game, but I'm sorry; if they can't support the ps3 version properly, I would just prefer to get a complete refund myself.

There have been reports that gamestop/ebgames/rhino employees have been told to not take in returns or exchanges of this game before it was even released. I wonder if they (and possibly other retailers) knew of the problems. Did Bethesda or Sony warn them beforehand, possibly promising them a fix would be on its way?

I already had to go 12 rounds with wally world over the so-called premium edition of this game that I didn't receive from them after pre-ordering. I was told by customer service that they would take care of it, no problem, and then given a number directly to their video games department. However, after calling them, I wasn't offered a refund, partial refund, exchange, or anything. They basically told me that they knew of the problem but that I was SOL. I actually sent in an official inquiry to Bethesda, because another company was falsely advertising pre-order incentives using their game, thinking that they would want to protect their name, but they did not respond at all to my inquiries. I did not get a premium map, and I am stuck with a game that's severely buggy and barely playable.

What makes these problems so bad is the fact that these games (morrowind, oblivion, fallout 3) are great mainstream rpgs when they're working correctly. They just don't work correctly very often. Morrowind on the original XBOX never got a fix for its save game bug. Bethesda knew about this bug way before the GOTY version was released and could have easily incorporated it into that version, but they refused to touch it, stating the only things different about that version were the expansion packs, no patches or anything.

As far as other people saying that Bethesda should hand over its engine/bugs to another developer, I'm sure that no other developer would touch this engine with a 10,000 foot pole. Most programmers/developers would want to start over with a new engine.

Those are fantastic games, but the scale and complexity simply isn't there. They're sandbox games for sure, but that isn't all that's complex with Bethesda games. Individual interactions with all NPCs (at least assigned scripting for them to respond if you try to interact), sprawling dungeons, sheer variety.

But, for all intents and purposes you just gave me a list of my favorite games. I haven't tried Dead Island yet, I've got to give it a try if you put that on the list. But as I recall, that game had a worse mistake than Skyrim.

The way I look at games now is from a developer perspective. I think of how much work something would take to exist in a game. Those games have a lot in common with Bethesda's hallmarks, but they consistently fall short in almost every category (expect apparently glitchiness in the ps3) and usually sacrifice one category to be able to polish another. That doesn't make them bad games by any stretch of the imagination, just not as complex as Skyrim which tries and in my opinion succeeds in delivering everything all at once. I can interact with everything and every one. I can play in any way I see fit.


They aren't close to the complexity of Skyrim, but that is a list of games that are making decent strides their way. As you've said though, they all have significant bugs which only proves my point.

Just like to point out that the 360 and PC versions are not free of problems. I have the 360 version and on my level 32 character, 73 hours in, I literally can't talk to any NPCs. A few seconds into the conversation and the game freezes, requiring 360 reset. Every NPC.

Oblivion had bugs on all platforms. The PS3 only got one additional notable one that the other platforms didn't and that's the vampire cure bug. As such, those bugs were not a compatibility problem between the software and the hardware, they were just bugs... overlooked flaws in the execution of quests. Oblivion on the PS3, especially considering its launch title status for the PS3, was nothing short of awesome. Here we are, nearly five years later, and Bethesda haven't seem to have figured out how to code for the PS3 as well as 4J Studios did at the PS3's release with Oblivion. The PS3 version is the blatantly inferior one and no amount of complexity excuses the simple fact that Bethesda haven't made a very efficient PS3 game. They should have outsourced Skyrim as they did Oblivion. Oblivion on the PS3 even came out vastly superior to its 360 counterpart.

The problem is they have our money now, they have sold millions of copies, and yes MS and Sony get their cut. So there is no incentive for them to get on top of it.

@lightknight

You are protecting the game like it was your (employer at bethesda) rhrhm sorry meant wife