My next playthrough I want to roll a Khajit and use hand to hand. I would like to either A.) use their claws or B.) use a fist weapon for hand to hand.

1. Train Heavy Armor to 30.
2. Take the Juggernaut Perk.
3. Take the Fists of Steel Perk
4. ????
5. PROFIT!!

Not really the same and also defeats the purpose of someone trying to play a monk like class. I really don't understand why H2H isn't a skill when it has been since Morrowind at least and FO3/FONV both had a system for H2H weapons. I mean, they took the time to make H2H finishing moves, so why not include other H2H based stuff?

Hand to hand was a skill in Daggerfall, too which was the birth of skill-based progression that The Elder Scrolls enjoys. I wasn't suggesting that as a definite solution, just a possible one if he wasn't aware. Sorry to come across like that.

Yes, Hand to hand is a nice skill and should be able to be improved easily through trickeration if not straight up (invisible gauntlets or a weapon with no graphical representation and the H2H animation).

I have made Katars for my mod. Im just waiting for the CK.

There is a thug in the Ratway of Riften with unarmed melee gloves. Not sure that they'd be worth basing a character on, though.

If you download the "No Prequisistes" Perks mod, you could at least do hand to hand and get that fists of steel perk, without doing the Heavy Armor tree.

Just a possibility to toss around.

Actually, the Heavy Armor skill would still need to be high enough to select that perk using the No Prerequisites mod.

Oh right, I forgot about that.........

Wow, the skill trees make no sense....

With high enchanting you can whack an extra 10 damage on gloves and on a ring at least. That and Daedric gives you about 40 damage, plus smithing? It's probably comparable to a 14 daedric waraxe * 1.5 skill * 2 armsman, but that can be doubled again by fortify enchants, and any smithing bonuses are going to get multiplied up as well whilst they'll just flat add to your gauntlet damage. Plus no enchants. So... powergame it and you're comparable to a non-smithing, non-enchanting 1hander. That must have been one of their testing builds so I imagine the game is doable, if hard.

Unarmed should be a 1 handed weapon, and The fists of steel perk should go in the 1 handed tree.

WIP: http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/8779/swords4b.jpg

This thread really makes me miss the Unhanded Skill......

My memories of going into that Tax Collecter Murderers hut in Seyda Neen and belting it out with him, watching his and my fatigue bars go down, having to run out of the shack and recover
and the sadistic fun of smacking someone down in Oblivion, waiting for them to get up, just to punch them into unconsciousness again.

I can personally attest that if you just spend a little bit of time...

Go a Khajit.

Heavy Armor to 30 (and taking that gauntlet perk).

Smithing better gauntlets as time goes on.

Taking enchanting and then DIS-ENCHANTING the Gloves of Pugilism (found in the sewers/ratway in Riften - there's a guy in there like 1 minute into the entrance that's got 'em).

I was level 30, i had gauntlets of somewhere around 50 or so armor rating, i had +12 to all my Melee attacks thanks to the enchantments, and i was PUNCHING DRAGONS TO DEATH.

Not kidding

Actually I tested this extensively...


The unarmed damage increase provided by the heavy armor perk is based of the BASE armor rating of the gauntlets, and is set sin stone. Increasing their armor rating through smithing and through increases in the heavy armor skill will not increase their damage at all. Test it and see.


P.S. Glad to see you in the Skyrim mod forums Talkie, brings me hope for the future!

P.P.S. A nice band-aid fix for unarmed play until the CK is released is if someone can mod both an invisible dagger and an invisibile shield. That way unarmed can scale (sort of) and utilize allot of perks.