» Wed May 23, 2012 5:48 am http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1374586-aliens-and-ufos-thread-2/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1375170-aliens-and-ufos-thread-3/
No poll this time.
The discussions in the last few threads have started to repeat themselves. Thread #3's poll told me that many of you are at least somewhat uneducated on the subject of UFOs and alien visitation. Because of these two things, I've taken the time to gather evidence about a variety of topics in relation to UFOs and alien visitation. Obviously, this is not all of the evidence, so think of them as starting points to do your own research.
Reliable Sources of UFOs:
Spoiler
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vIePMgtjT4 on the records of pilots that have witnessed UFOs while in flight.
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dro2CTqEhI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilUSDugvlRQ
These interviews with Martin Stubbs are about his discovery of unexplained phenomena from the footage he recorded while working for NASA. He makes no claims as to what the objects are and is merely looking for an explanation, but despite his best efforts, they remain unexplained.
- The sixth man to walk on the moon, Dr. Edgar Mitchell, has gone on record multiple times saying he absolutely believes aliens are visiting us, have been for a long time, and that the government is covering up information and evidence proving their existence.
- Here is http://www.theparacast.com/podcasts/paracast_090405.mp3 (roughly 2 hours long) of an interview with Richard Haines, founder of NARCAP (National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena), who goes into detail about gathering data from pilots about UFOs.
- There have been multiple mass-sightings of unidentified flying objects, such as the Phoenix Lights, the Belgian UFO Wave, and the Tinley Park Lights.
- Many UFOs have been caught on radar.
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk is a group of several former military and government officials coming forward and giving their testimonies of UFOs, alien bodies, and the government covering this information up.
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dro2CTqEhI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilUSDugvlRQ
These interviews with Martin Stubbs are about his discovery of unexplained phenomena from the footage he recorded while working for NASA. He makes no claims as to what the objects are and is merely looking for an explanation, but despite his best efforts, they remain unexplained.
- The sixth man to walk on the moon, Dr. Edgar Mitchell, has gone on record multiple times saying he absolutely believes aliens are visiting us, have been for a long time, and that the government is covering up information and evidence proving their existence.
- Here is http://www.theparacast.com/podcasts/paracast_090405.mp3 (roughly 2 hours long) of an interview with Richard Haines, founder of NARCAP (National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena), who goes into detail about gathering data from pilots about UFOs.
- There have been multiple mass-sightings of unidentified flying objects, such as the Phoenix Lights, the Belgian UFO Wave, and the Tinley Park Lights.
- Many UFOs have been caught on radar.
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk is a group of several former military and government officials coming forward and giving their testimonies of UFOs, alien bodies, and the government covering this information up.
Government Cover-up:
Spoiler
Majestic-12
http://www.ufocasebook.com/maj/mj1.jpg - http://www.ufocasebook.com/maj/mj2.jpg - http://www.ufocasebook.com/maj/mj3.jpg - http://www.ufocasebook.com/maj/mj4.jpg - http://www.ufocasebook.com/maj/mj5.jpg - http://www.ufocasebook.com/maj/mj6.jpg
An alleged operation formed by President Harry Truman, called Majestic 12 (or MJ-12, or MAJIC) composing of 12 men in order to study the remains of a flying saucer and alien bodies that crashed in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947, and theorized to have continued from there with covering up information and evidence of extra-terrestrial visitation.
The main evidence of this organization comes in the form of the six documents posted above. None of them were the original documents, but they have been subjected to lots of anolysis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG2iRQ0jq6I - A documentary on the Majestic 12. In this documentary, you can also see fragments of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHqIXLOqRak, where even more detail is gone into to discredit criticism of the documents, and even further credit their authenticity. If these documents are a hoax, they hold up to scrutiny extremely well, and offer deep insight into the lives and situations of the alleged members, including many things that very few people knew before their release.
Project Blue Book
A series of studies conducted by the US AIr Force to look into the subject of unidentified flying objects from 1952 to 1970. It remains the definitive study that the government points to today. While the conclusion was reached that UFO sightings could be explained and were not of extra-terrestrial origin, the statistics suggested something slightly different. Many cases were kept classified, and there were a large number of "unknown" cases. Project Blue Book Special Report No. 14 (Special Reports 1-13 are still classified) was a statistical anolysis of all cases at that time. About 69% of the cases were classified as identified, 22% as unknown, and 9% as insufficient information. Despite this, the Air Force made the claim that this research scientifically proved UFOs do not exist, citing that only 3% were unknown and that they believed that 3% could be explained away if there had been more data. Obviously, this is a flat out lie, as the report itself indicates 22% were unknown and that there was an entirely separate section for reports with insufficient data.
Project Blue Book has also been given significant criticism for not handling things objectively and instead sought to write off everything. Dr. J. Allen Hynek worked with the US Air Force with Project Blue Book and in similar earlier projects, Project Sign and Project Grudge. He himself criticized many of the heads of these projects for their unwillingness to act objectively, that Project Blue Book was little more than a "public relations exercise," and that the research undertaken did not utilize the scientific method. Hynek himself started off as a skeptic, stating "the whole subject seems utterly ridiculous." He gradually had a turnaround, and at the closing of Project Blue book, was convinced the UFO phenomenon was real and could not exclude the possibility of extra-terrestrial origin.
Roswell Incident
A lot of misinformation and outrageous stories have been said about Roswell, New Mexico and what it was that crashed there in 1947. What is undeniable, however, is that Major Jesse Marcel, a witness to the crash who handled the materials, the man famously seen in http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/Debris_marcel2.jpg, not only went on record saying he recovered inexplicable materials with hieroglyphic-like patterns on it that could not burn or bend, but also passed a polygraph test when asked about this subject. The official excuse was that it was a weather balloon with radar equipment on it. Jesse Marcel had had courses in his training on weather ballons and radar material and said he was certain that is not what the objects were.
There is also the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8VQwxF8gRQ that can be seen in several of the photos where General Ramey is holding a piece of paper while dealing with the weather ballon pieces. When anolyzed, it talks about a "disc" and "victims of the wreck." Obviously, weather balloons do not have passengers.
Years later, the Air Force claimed that the alien bodies reported from the crash were actually crash test dummies. However, these dummies were 6 ft+ tall, whereas all reports of the alien bodies described beings 3-4 ft tall. Also, those crash test dummies were not put into use until years after the Roswell Incident.
Ufologist Stanton Friedman attempted to get the official documents about the Roswell Incident. He was finally able to obtain them under the Freedom of Information Act. Of the 18 he wanted, he received 9. Several of the documents http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmh44mT-IWE&feature=player_detailpage#t=3773s. This censorship was on the grounds of national security. Is that level of censorship on the grounds of "national security" really necessary for a downed weather balloon with radar equipment from 50+ years ago?! If that is not covering up information, then I don't know what is. But why?
http://www.ufocasebook.com/maj/mj1.jpg - http://www.ufocasebook.com/maj/mj2.jpg - http://www.ufocasebook.com/maj/mj3.jpg - http://www.ufocasebook.com/maj/mj4.jpg - http://www.ufocasebook.com/maj/mj5.jpg - http://www.ufocasebook.com/maj/mj6.jpg
An alleged operation formed by President Harry Truman, called Majestic 12 (or MJ-12, or MAJIC) composing of 12 men in order to study the remains of a flying saucer and alien bodies that crashed in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947, and theorized to have continued from there with covering up information and evidence of extra-terrestrial visitation.
The main evidence of this organization comes in the form of the six documents posted above. None of them were the original documents, but they have been subjected to lots of anolysis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG2iRQ0jq6I - A documentary on the Majestic 12. In this documentary, you can also see fragments of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHqIXLOqRak, where even more detail is gone into to discredit criticism of the documents, and even further credit their authenticity. If these documents are a hoax, they hold up to scrutiny extremely well, and offer deep insight into the lives and situations of the alleged members, including many things that very few people knew before their release.
Project Blue Book
A series of studies conducted by the US AIr Force to look into the subject of unidentified flying objects from 1952 to 1970. It remains the definitive study that the government points to today. While the conclusion was reached that UFO sightings could be explained and were not of extra-terrestrial origin, the statistics suggested something slightly different. Many cases were kept classified, and there were a large number of "unknown" cases. Project Blue Book Special Report No. 14 (Special Reports 1-13 are still classified) was a statistical anolysis of all cases at that time. About 69% of the cases were classified as identified, 22% as unknown, and 9% as insufficient information. Despite this, the Air Force made the claim that this research scientifically proved UFOs do not exist, citing that only 3% were unknown and that they believed that 3% could be explained away if there had been more data. Obviously, this is a flat out lie, as the report itself indicates 22% were unknown and that there was an entirely separate section for reports with insufficient data.
Project Blue Book has also been given significant criticism for not handling things objectively and instead sought to write off everything. Dr. J. Allen Hynek worked with the US Air Force with Project Blue Book and in similar earlier projects, Project Sign and Project Grudge. He himself criticized many of the heads of these projects for their unwillingness to act objectively, that Project Blue Book was little more than a "public relations exercise," and that the research undertaken did not utilize the scientific method. Hynek himself started off as a skeptic, stating "the whole subject seems utterly ridiculous." He gradually had a turnaround, and at the closing of Project Blue book, was convinced the UFO phenomenon was real and could not exclude the possibility of extra-terrestrial origin.
Roswell Incident
A lot of misinformation and outrageous stories have been said about Roswell, New Mexico and what it was that crashed there in 1947. What is undeniable, however, is that Major Jesse Marcel, a witness to the crash who handled the materials, the man famously seen in http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/Debris_marcel2.jpg, not only went on record saying he recovered inexplicable materials with hieroglyphic-like patterns on it that could not burn or bend, but also passed a polygraph test when asked about this subject. The official excuse was that it was a weather balloon with radar equipment on it. Jesse Marcel had had courses in his training on weather ballons and radar material and said he was certain that is not what the objects were.
There is also the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8VQwxF8gRQ that can be seen in several of the photos where General Ramey is holding a piece of paper while dealing with the weather ballon pieces. When anolyzed, it talks about a "disc" and "victims of the wreck." Obviously, weather balloons do not have passengers.
Years later, the Air Force claimed that the alien bodies reported from the crash were actually crash test dummies. However, these dummies were 6 ft+ tall, whereas all reports of the alien bodies described beings 3-4 ft tall. Also, those crash test dummies were not put into use until years after the Roswell Incident.
Ufologist Stanton Friedman attempted to get the official documents about the Roswell Incident. He was finally able to obtain them under the Freedom of Information Act. Of the 18 he wanted, he received 9. Several of the documents http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmh44mT-IWE&feature=player_detailpage#t=3773s. This censorship was on the grounds of national security. Is that level of censorship on the grounds of "national security" really necessary for a downed weather balloon with radar equipment from 50+ years ago?! If that is not covering up information, then I don't know what is. But why?
Criticism / FAQs:
Spoiler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2nmOBjf2UA
Popular ufologist and nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman addresses many of the "debunkers" of UFOs, government cover-ups, the Roswell Incident, and more, pointing out the flaws in their statements.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOAvL1O3DyM, Stanton Friedman addresses the more common arguments against UFOs, such as "how could a government keep this secret?" or "how are they supposed to get here from there?" and more.
In general, Stanton Friedman makes counter-arguments to much of the criticism posed to the idea of alien visitation. I would recommend further research on him and his views. He's done as much to debunk hoaxes and misinformation about UFOs and aliens as he has to make a very compelling case in favor of them.
Q: Could the government really keep a secret like this?
A: To an extent, absolutely. Compartmentalization and a Need To Know basis makes it easy to contain the really important secrets, and one of this magnitude would be on a higher level of top secret than the H-bomb. However, the secret is not perfectly kept because, obviously, there are plenty of people talking and revealing secrets. The Majestic-12 documents, former government and military official testimonies, and first-hand witnesses are a testament to that fact. This question holds no weight.
Q: How are they supposed to get here from where ever they are?
A: The general idea behind extra-terrestrial visitation is that we are being visited by technologically advanced beings. The UFO sightings are so exceptional because they describe or show objects in the sky that act in ways that defy our understanding of physics and aerodynamics. When dealing with this type of subject, it is absurd to think we would have to answer as to how inter-stellar or inter-galactic travel is possible. There are plenty of hypotheses, but the whole point is that we do not know.
Q: Isn't the probability for aliens visiting us far too low?
A: The evidence suggests that aliens are already visiting us, not that the probability of such an occurrence is in favor of the idea. We also could very easily be missing key points of data that would show the probability is much higher than we have ever imagined. This is a moot point to the subject and is best kept as a topic of discussion between two people who have not looked at the evidence themselves.
Q: Why would aliens visit us? What is their motivation?
A: There are tons of theories as to why an alien species would want to visit Earth, everything from observing an unfolding intelligent race in the "neighborhood" to wanting to harvest certain materials from our planet to genetic engineering. The fact is you could look at different theories and try to shoot them down one by one all day, but it will not prove anything. It is possible that alien motivations are outside our limitations of guesswork. A probable motivation is no one's basis for believing aliens are visiting us.
Popular ufologist and nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman addresses many of the "debunkers" of UFOs, government cover-ups, the Roswell Incident, and more, pointing out the flaws in their statements.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOAvL1O3DyM, Stanton Friedman addresses the more common arguments against UFOs, such as "how could a government keep this secret?" or "how are they supposed to get here from there?" and more.
In general, Stanton Friedman makes counter-arguments to much of the criticism posed to the idea of alien visitation. I would recommend further research on him and his views. He's done as much to debunk hoaxes and misinformation about UFOs and aliens as he has to make a very compelling case in favor of them.
Q: Could the government really keep a secret like this?
A: To an extent, absolutely. Compartmentalization and a Need To Know basis makes it easy to contain the really important secrets, and one of this magnitude would be on a higher level of top secret than the H-bomb. However, the secret is not perfectly kept because, obviously, there are plenty of people talking and revealing secrets. The Majestic-12 documents, former government and military official testimonies, and first-hand witnesses are a testament to that fact. This question holds no weight.
Q: How are they supposed to get here from where ever they are?
A: The general idea behind extra-terrestrial visitation is that we are being visited by technologically advanced beings. The UFO sightings are so exceptional because they describe or show objects in the sky that act in ways that defy our understanding of physics and aerodynamics. When dealing with this type of subject, it is absurd to think we would have to answer as to how inter-stellar or inter-galactic travel is possible. There are plenty of hypotheses, but the whole point is that we do not know.
Q: Isn't the probability for aliens visiting us far too low?
A: The evidence suggests that aliens are already visiting us, not that the probability of such an occurrence is in favor of the idea. We also could very easily be missing key points of data that would show the probability is much higher than we have ever imagined. This is a moot point to the subject and is best kept as a topic of discussion between two people who have not looked at the evidence themselves.
Q: Why would aliens visit us? What is their motivation?
A: There are tons of theories as to why an alien species would want to visit Earth, everything from observing an unfolding intelligent race in the "neighborhood" to wanting to harvest certain materials from our planet to genetic engineering. The fact is you could look at different theories and try to shoot them down one by one all day, but it will not prove anything. It is possible that alien motivations are outside our limitations of guesswork. A probable motivation is no one's basis for believing aliens are visiting us.
In conclusion, I do not expect this to change anyone's mind on the subject of whether or not we are being visited by extra-terrestrials. I do, however, think that in the face of all this credible evidence, it is preposterous to assume anyone who believes in alien visitation is crazy, because the evidence in favor of it clearly exists. I also don't expect anyone to actually watch/listen to/read every single one of things I have posted here, since most things are over an hour long. I did try to keep it varied and interesting, so hopefully most people take a close look at a few things and maybe come back to look at more.
Please post your thoughts.
