From Arena to Skyrim skills have been taken out or put into a other skill, while game play mechanics were streamlined or dumbed down. Its only logically that the new TES games will continue this pattern, but to what extent do you guys think it will go to?

Man i really hope not. I hope they just ignore the (i hate this word but i have to say it) mainstream, too easy and crappy games of today and make another Morrowind or Oblivion Elder Scrolls. I am an hardcoe fan and i've played from the start of the series and man was i disapointed with Skyrim. If they continue to make TES games like Skyrim... Well... R.I.P TES

Not sure if troll thread...

For the sake of discussion, I don't think of it as dumbing down or streamlining. The perk system only made characters more unique IMO.

Worst case scenario is the series turns into a hack-n-slash with Kinect/motion-control design.

RIP indeed...

Lets look at Morrowind to Skyrim combat skills (not including destruction) shall we? Morrowind had seven , Oblivion had four, Skyrim has only three. If this trend continues thier will be one skill for melee weapons, one for bows, and destruction.

Ya, its gonna get more streamlined...thats a given. Look at the dlcs they are putting out. Basically the civil war all over again with copy and paste.

My worst fear is that there will only be three skills melee, stealth, and magic.

If it gets to that point i will put an arrow in bethesdas knee...

But the graphics would be amazing and you'd be the leader of all the guilds in one quest!

Do we like more skills because it makes the game more fun or do we like complexity for the sake of complexity? I get the impression that most "real" gamers fall in the latter category.

The number of skills may have gone down, but the way in which each skill manifests as in-game effects has greatly varied. Now two characters with equal scores in One Handed can embody totally different types of character depending on the perk.

In Morrowind, two characters with equal scores in Marksman pretty much played the same as far as ranged combat is concerned. But now characters with the same score can use different styles and tactics.

Characters are now growing in power horizontally rather than vertically.

I dont know using a axe vs sword or mace are completely different than each other.

totaly agreed... i miss Morrowind so much!

Eh? Are you saying that using these weapons are completely different? Isn't that what makes the perks useful to differentiate an axe fighter and a swordsman?

I want skills not perks.

If using a sword is different enough from a mace to warrant separate skills, I contend that the schools of magic are woefully dumbed down. Why should Feather and Water Breathing be in the same skill? Why does Charming a person have anything to do with Invisibility or Light?

Each spell effect is usually unique enough to have its own skill. If swords can't share the same skill as mace, neither should Open Lock and Armor.

Its not a big difference if there the only difference is you choose one of three perks for said weapon type.

but each of those perks have 3 ranks. So someone could take 3 perks of Bladesman.

The way I see it is that some gamers prefer complexity and a feeling of something unique as soon as they are thrown in, others view the new perk system as something that allows the player to customize himself further. In all seriousness, I believe that if we were to go back to a separate skill and separate attribute, and permanent birthsign, it would please the old, but it wouldn't entertain the new. The new would be confused, the new would probably like it , or might throw it away, it is a hard gamble to assume either, because the business men look at the charts and not the times, or if they do maybe it needs to be a deeper study, because in 2002, rpgs were being introduced more and more, that was when our beloved Morrowind came out, there were many buyers, and many loved it for its political and in-game depth and playability, tohugh over years players strayed due to graphics fluffy content, Oblivion, the fourth beloved, came out and interested those who were now hooked on grahpics rise, so they do another graphic overhaul and Skyrim is a hit, it was lazy works in comparison to depth of story, compared to Morrowind sure, I suppose, but it pleased the now more " mainstreamed" RPG class that is, due to its graphics and "do-what-you-want-how-you-want" theme. Some newer gamers might stray away if the TES VI involves something they are unfamiliar with, similar as Morrowinder's reacting to Oblivion and its limited weapons, etc from Morrowind. Sure, many may like the new attributes, but without perks, they would feel restricted. Perks allow the player to feel like they are doing something to develop their character, granted it is more downed in complexity and subtle-ness but it appeases many. In my opinion, perks do allow the player to customize a little more. Would I wish for more of an attribute system? Maybe, but I am not a truly picky player, I enjoyall TES games, some more in certain ways than others, I just find that maybe they were testing things to see how it went, and maybe they might test more, or even apply a whole new idea of mix-n'-match that makes everyone happy. I would love it if they re-added spears or throwing weapons, or incrporated it into larger trees or more complex trees of perks. I feel happy with what Beth. Soft. is doing, but if they sacrafice graphics for story any further to where it becomes ridiculous, ( I.e.: Hero goes to town, town is ransacked by evil, evil is a twisted malformation of political force that is easy to understand like and Easy-bake-oven, hero defeats force, hero saves day, hero sits in house and waits to die, revelling over what just happened for the next hundred years or so until he dies in a Guar-stampede) I would simply not waste my time with involving myself with Beth.Soft. anymore. I believe they are testing things to try and make a better game every 3 games of release. Example: Arena- very buggy, hardly playable, sparked attention by introducing a new game into the market. Daggerfall- expansion beyond Arena, into the world of Daggerfall, with updated graphics and a slightly better storyline, set the crows to wait for the next new game, was a nicer continuation of the series from the super-big Arena. Morrowind- A big hit in 2002, critically acclaimed as a good- overall RPG with many elements that extend beyonf many recent developments of Beth. games, and even in RPG catagory.
Morrowind was an Outstander in the series, and TES got alot more recognition. Oblivion- introduced far better graphics and a story line that is deabateable by TES III follower's to be somewhat lacking, or a little better. Skyrim- got alot more recognition of its graphics and content, was well known, and became well known due to its graphics, some debate whether it is better than Oblivion, usually coming to a yes in some areas, a definite yes in graphics. That leaves TES VI to become the next Morrowind, right? So I would assume at least. I am hoping that maybe TES VI involves not only graphics experimented on with oblivion and skyrim, but with story experimented in Morrowind, as that they try something different each run-through. Not sure if I am making sense but the way I se it is: Arena is to Oblivion, as Daggerfall is to Skyrim, as Morrowind is to TES VI. I really hope that is what is happening, though it may just be pure delusional hope, but I can say that some of you may agree with me that it would be awesome if I were right.

Bethesda's really about to push me out the door, at least as far as TES goes.

The perk system is an absolute trainwreck, just when I thought they'd debuted the worst possible leveling mechanic back in Morrowind, and found ways to make it even worse in Oblivion... they manage to come up with something that actually made leveling ENTIRELY unrewarding. (Not to mention the constant reminder text to "go level")

The options that I had the most fun with in Oblivion are gone. The untapped potential Bethesda had in their attributes was sacrificed. The armor system now has big numbers, with no apparent improvements to the underlying system other than "BIG NUMBERS!". Smithing is *still* a broken mess of a mechanic. Cooking, "jobs", and marriage are beyond shallow.

I'm *still* waiting for a skill-by-skill overhaul of Skyrim just to make the game worth playing... and I'm not sure that can happen with the sparse and railroading dialogue.