The Dark Knight Rises Thread #2 : Othor Games

» Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:56 pm

So, the http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1395732-the-dark-knight-rises/ got to the post limit.

I've been thinking: Heath Ledger is dead, but the Joker isn't, right? So what is the Joker doing during the events of this movie? Since presumably the Joker is put in jail,

Spoiler

doesn't Bane's jailbreak mean that the Joker is loose on the streets for the latter half of the movie? :tongue:

Spoiler

Not just the inmates were a corrupt bunch. Corruption was also festering in the elite and the higher authorities. They were also corrupt in the eyes of the League. Bane, releasing the prisoners and watching as the city gladly accepted his idea of a "Revolution". simple waited to push the button to get rid of everyone.

Spoiler

Did the city actually gladly accept it? Yeah, we see some looting, but we also see a bunch of normal people squatting in one of the scenes, presumably homeless. Only Catwoman is happy with the revolution, but even she kind of changes her mind in the end. I don't see Bane as having a legitimate, sincere point at all. All the 'take back your city' stuff was explicitly just to torture Batman as revenge, not out of any real sense of social justice.

Firstly; all films want to be meaningful, I don't see how that can possibly be a criticism in its own right. All films have a "social-political subtext", or at least an agenda.

Not really. The Avengers, for example, wasn't really aspiring to be meaningful, or have any socio-political subtext. Okay, if you want to be pedantic, there is socio-political subtext, but it's not something the film focuses on, unlike this movie, which is what strifecross was saying.

Secondly... I'm a bit unsure about what you mean. Are you suggesting that the film was supposed to be advocating "equality" as a social-political goal? Because I think you're wrong.

Spoiler

Bane offered equality to the people of Gotham, but really it was just a front for the nihilistic tendencies of the League of Shadows. Even if you take that part out of the equation, the "revolution" of Gotham (which had obvious parallels to the French revolution) and the revolutionary government that followed (which had even more obvious parallels to the USSR under Stalin) were just masks for the corrupt and mad to terrorise "normal people". The only major character who ever seems to truly believe in the revolution is Anne Hathaway's, and she changes her mind by the end.

So if anything, I think the film seemed to be implying that "equality" is an ideal not to be trusted.

Spoiler

Agreed! It is definitely a smokescreen and not particularly sincere (as we find out). If anything I would say that TDKR has a distinctly right-wing, conservative take on things - the 'trials' are clearly sham trials and are led by a mad criminal who once tried to crazy-gas the whole city, the McGuffin is weaponized from "clean renewable energy", and it's still rather paternalistic in that in the end it's still one of the 1% who sacrifices himself to saves Gotham.

However, a lot of people on the Internet I've read so far seem to be taking Bane's supposed philosophy seriously.

» Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:53 am

I've been thinking: Heath Ledger is dead, but the Joker isn't, right? So what is the Joker doing during the events of this movie? Since presumably the Joker is put in jail,

Spoiler

doesn't Bane's jailbreak mean that the Joker is loose on the streets for the latter half of the movie? :tongue:

Spoiler

We simply don't know what happened to the joker... might as well be dead.. eight years have passed.. might be transferred to a federal prison outside Gotham ... who knows... By not mentioning or referencing him Nolan has made sure that Ledgers Joker is the Joker for his trilogy..

Spoiler

Did the city actually gladly accept it? Yeah, we see some looting, but we also see a bunch of normal people squatting in one of the scenes, presumably homeless. Only Catwoman is happy with the revolution, but even she kind of changes her mind in the end. I don't see Bane as having a legitimate, sincere point at all. All the 'take back your city' stuff was explicitly just to torture Batman as revenge, not out of any real sense of social justice.

Spoiler

Some of the city does accept it. The movie is a perfect sequel to BB and TDK in its portrayal of Gotham. In fact showing that the league of shadow is correct.
-BB: Gotham is ruled by the Falcones and their syndicates: Corrupt
-TDK: Gotham is beating down on crime.. The joker shows that all that is needed is chaos to throw an established somewhat artifically maintained system into turmoil.
-TDKR: Once again the faux status quo is broken.. this time by bane, showing that civilization is easily broken. During the first phase of Banes masterplan we in fact see Bellhops and other civilians looting and harassing the rich.
I also don't see Catwoman/Selina accepting this new system as such.. I feel it is more of an ironic comment. On the one hand she likes the new situation because equality between rich and poor is one of het motivations as a thief. On the other hand she sees as we do.. that the construct of power distribution has only shifted from those who have money to those who have guns.

Spoiler

However, a lot of people on the Internet I've read so far seem to be taking Bane's supposed philosophy seriously.

Spoiler

I think in the basis Bane, Ras al Ghul and the Joker to some extent are all correct to some point .. that is a cynical conclusion and is in fact fought by Batman in all three movies:
-BB: Gotham can be redeemed and he saves the city
-TDK: Chaos is not accept by everyone: The boats and Batman makes the sacrifice to bring back order so chaos does not win.
-TDKR: Though I am OK with the way it ends: Batman, in the eyes of Gotham, makes the ultimate sacrifice saving the city as is.. with all its flaws.. Bringing it back to the way it was but with far less criminal scum ruling the city.

» Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:53 pm

Spoiler

I thought the Joker fell to his death. Guess I need to rewatch that movie.