I constantly see comments and the general concept that the changes made to Skyrim (steamlining of atributes, reimagining of skills, removal of rebundant magic school and spell making process) where somehow done in an atempt to make the game more accesible to a broader base of players; Beth calls it steamlining, some calling dumbing down.

In general terms (since the concept of dumbing down isnt the same for everybody) I would say that to make more accesible something you make it easier to understand or do, so lets take players who started out with Oblivion as our little benchmark. I think picking Oblivion for this is perfect because it was the real mainstream breakthrough for TES, since it was the first to appear on both the 360 and PS3 consoles and the PC, and it was the first game to take a more action based combat system and use full speech for its characters.

BTW this is not meant to be a "Oblivion is better than Skyrim" thread; there are plenty of those and if not you are certainly free to make oone if you feel so inclined, and none of "the old school games are better Skyrim svcks" either

So...if you started with Oblivion and then bought Skyrim please answer a few questions, you can answer with a simple yes, no or give a more developed response

1) So your first TES game was Oblivion, did you like it enough to warrant buying Skyrim when it came out? did you buy it without checking reviews, or did you even buy it in presale?

2) Did you find Oblivion′s character development (mayor skills, minor skills, leveling system, multipliers) dificult to understand or overly complicated?
Is Skyrim′s character development easier (3 attributes, perks, reworked skills) do you prefer it to Oblivion′s?

3) Did the removal of some skills & atributes (unarmed, unarmored, spellmaking etc) and the reimagining of new skills (smithing, illusion, perks) change your playstyle, or altered it in any way? Did those changes make game easier, better, harder?

4) Did you think that Oblivion was difficult to understand and was overly complicated and because of that you didnt enjoy it and stoped playing it after awhile, and now you prefer Skyrim because it is easier to understand and more fun?

5) If someone didn′t enjoy Oblivion because it was difficult to understand and was overly complicated, would you recommend they try Skyrim anyway?

I qualify for these questions since Oblivion was my first (Way before Skyrim was even announced or hinted at, mind you!).

DISCLAIMER: I like all TES games, but not all are perfect but not all have the same amount of flaws. Just sayin'...

Anyway....


1) So your first TES game was Oblivion, did you like it enough to warrant buying Skyrim when it came out? did you buy it without checking reviews, or did you even buy it in presale?

Oblivion (And even Morrowind as it was my second TES game) had me fall in love with the lore and stories. When I heard about Skyrim, I braced myself for what potential epicness at the time I was expecting. And yes, I preordered it around after E3.

2) Did you find Oblivion′s character development (mayor skills, minor skills, leveling system, multipliers) difficult to understand or overly complicated?
Is Skyrim′s character development easier (3 attributes, perks, reworked skills) do you prefer it to Oblivion′s?


In terms of skills and attributes, I wouldnt mind having Oblivion or Morrowind's RPG element on character development back over the crap skill development in Skyrim.

3) Did the removal of some skills & attributes (unarmed, unarmored, spellmaking etc) and the reimagining of new skills (smithing, illusion, perks) change your playstyle, or altered it in any way? Did those changes make game easier, better, harder?

Too easy. Even at level 1 actually....I am all for adding skills but removing some that actually helped in immersion and development was rather dumb. Attribute removal kind of surprised me but other RPG elements that got ripped out (equipment degrading, ect.) is what makes Skyrim a terrible RPG.


4) Did you think that Oblivion was difficult to understand and was overly complicated and because of that you didn't enjoy it and stopped playing it after awhile, and now you prefer Skyrim because it is easier to understand and more fun?

Skyrim is fun. As a game. As a RPG? Nadda. Reason I loved Morrowind over Oblivion was because it actually challenged me and made me think. I actaully got senses of accomplishments whenever I did something that was supposed to be hard. I am so glad I know what real RPGs are like before Skyrim came along.

5) If someone didn′t enjoy Oblivion because it was difficult to understand and was overly complicated, would you recommend they try Skyrim anyway?

If they never played a RPG or TES game? Yes. If they tried Oblivion/Morrowind after Skyrim and said that....well, I'll have a few words with them.

1) So your first TES game was Oblivion, did you like it enough to warrant buying Skyrim when it came out? did you buy it without checking reviews, or did you even buy it in presale?
My friends always talked about Morrowind and how great it was. So when I saw Oblivion for the PS3, I bought it.

2) Did you find Oblivion′s character development (mayor skills, minor skills, leveling system, multipliers) dificult to understand or overly complicated?
Is Skyrim′s character development easier (3 attributes, perks, reworked skills) do you prefer it to Oblivion′s?
I think everyone, no matter which Elder Scroll game will be confused. It's a lot to take in at once, I was more worried not knowing the enviorment then learning how to level up and what not. Oblivion was very easy to understand, and the hints they gave during loading times helped me figure out how to properly play the game on my 3rd day of playing. I will admit in Skyrim it took me 8 hours to learn everything, while in Oblivion it took until I beated my first quest line (That's including even getting up to the point, so I say it took 15 hours.)


3) Did the removal of some skills & atributes (unarmed, unarmored, spellmaking etc) and the reimagining of new skills (smithing, illusion) change your playstyle, or altered it in any way? Did those changes make game easier, better, harder?
Spellmaking was expensive, but it was fun to dabble in. It was really the highlight of going through the Arcane University questline, but the removel of Hand to Hand combat was depressing.... But I suppose it makes sense that killing people with your fists is really hard to do unless you knew martial arts. Besides hand to hand combat was very underpowered... I say that overall without these is Skyrim it didn't make anything easier, or harder. Just depressing knowing that those fun features were gone.

4) Did you think that Oblivion and because of that you didnt enjoy it and stoped playing it after awhile, and now you prefer Skyrim because it is easier to understand and more fun?
I still prefer Oblivion a little bit... Even though I haven't touched the game after Skyrim came out. Skyrim is a much stronger title, but it's missing a lot that Oblivion had. And I'm one of those people who actually ROLEPLAYS in my elder scroll games. And skyrim almost completely got rid of that element until I started becoming more creative about my characters. How I see Skyrim is a more universal game for the more casual or first person shooter kind of crowd, while keeping some roleplay elements to keep us RPer's at bay. Best way to put it is, it's like a Roleplay gamer who plays WOW meeting a Shooter gamer who plays Call of Duty or Halo. Two different people, one game.

5) If someone didn′t enjoy Oblivion because it was difficult to understand and was overly complicated, would you recommend they try Skyrim anyway?
I would have them continue playing Oblivion, then Skyrim. Oblivon takes time to have serious fun, Skyrim gives you insta fun. I find the fun that you work for is the most fun you'll ever have.

1) So your first TES game was Oblivion, did you like it enough to warrant buying Skyrim when it came out? did you buy it without checking reviews, or did you even buy it in presale?
Yes, I liked Oblivion enough to buy kyrim.

2) Did you find Oblivion′s character development (mayor skills, minor skills, leveling system, multipliers) dificult to understand or overly complicated?
Is Skyrim′s character development easier (3 attributes, perks, reworked skills) do you prefer it to Oblivion′s?
Oblivion's character development was hard to understand, it was just stupid. Use Skyrim's system but add attributes that give players an additional layer of customization.

3) Did the removal of some skills & atributes (unarmed, unarmored, spellmaking etc) and the reimagining of new skills (smithing, illusion, perks) change your playstyle, or altered it in any way? Did those changes make game easier, better, harder?
Unarmed should have stayed. I like the perk system, basically as time goes on, your character becomes more specialized.

4) Did you think that Oblivion was difficult to understand and was overly complicated and because of that you didnt enjoy it and stoped playing it after awhile, and now you prefer Skyrim because it is easier to understand and more fun?
No . It was the level scaling system that kind of blunted the idea of progression, with the ridiculous leveling mechanic that caused me to spend far less time with it then Skyrim.

5) If someone didn′t enjoy Oblivion because it was difficult to understand and was overly complicated, would you recommend they try Skyrim anyway?
Yes, because the system in Skyrim is less complicated and far more intuitive, with the selection of perks.

1. pre-order

2. OB's system was NOT overly complicated, SK's is easier, I prefer OB's

3. I've made 100's of characters in both games so that I can explore all the play styles

4. Hell NO!

5. I would recommend they read a book and stop watching honey boo boo

1) So your first TES game was Oblivion, did you like it enough to warrant buying Skyrim when it came out? did you buy it without checking reviews, or did you even buy it in presale?

- I preordered skyrim collectors edition without hesitation.

2) Did you find Oblivion′s character development (mayor skills, minor skills, leveling system, multipliers) dificult to understand or overly complicated?
Is Skyrim′s character development easier (3 attributes, perks, reworked skills) do you prefer it to Oblivion′s?

- did not find it hard. skyrim is a lot easier and i do prefer it to oblivions.

3) Did the removal of some skills & atributes (unarmed, unarmored, spellmaking etc) and the reimagining of new skills (smithing, illusion, perks) change your playstyle, or altered it in any way? Did those changes make game easier, better, harder?

-did not alter me in any way. did make the game easier. Not sure if better

4) Did you think that Oblivion was difficult to understand and was overly complicated and because of that you didnt enjoy it and stoped playing it after awhile, and now you prefer Skyrim because it is easier to understand and more fun?

- No and no

5) If someone didn′t enjoy Oblivion because it was difficult to understand and was overly complicated, would you recommend they try Skyrim anyway?

- yes i would

1. I waited almost a month and a half before buying skyrim and i checked ALOT of reviews before doing so.

2. No, Oblivion's character development wasn't too terribly hard to understand. It wasn't exactly easy but after a couple tries i figured out how to make the character i wanted.

3. Well of course it changed it, can't say i agree with everything they removed or changed. It did make roleplaying harder but mostly it was just different.

4. No i still play Oblivion every now and then, and asking which TES game you prefer is like asking which one of your children do you love the most.

5. Well i would recommend either of these games to anyone regardless so i guess it doesn't matter
This made me laugh so hard i almost cried

Perfect topic since Oblivion was my 1st TES game and Oblivion made me fall in love with TES.

1. I checked reviews as a formality, it was an automatic buy for me. I kinda wish in hindsight that I waited until the price drop but I don't regret getting Skyrim. I only regret that Skyrim is worse then Oblivion but maybe that's because I loved Oblivion so much and that Skyrim dropped the ball in so many areas.

2. I prefered Oblivion's system but not the exact same system. I would've liked what Fallout 3 did, have static attributes. Oblivion's system isn't complicated once you get used to it. Skyrim's system is so simple, you can't fail unlike in Oblivion where you could. The Character creation in itself IMO has gotten worse. Presets can't make up for unique looking Imperials who are now square jawed and ugly especially the females (Excluding Vex).

3. The removal made the game easier and less annoying but in hindsight I wish some of those skills like Armorer were back but fixed. I'm so glad that the bow got fixed from Oblivion, I'm easily the worst bow user in the history of Oblivion, I can't use the bow for crap. In Skyrim, me being a bow user is much easier and rewarding due to the changes.

4. I actually never had a problem getting bored with Oblivion. I think my issues were that Level scaling in some instances was over done and I got way too much money and nothing to spend it on. Skyrim I have issues with Repetition, I get bored easily with Skyrim and that's bad.

5. I'd still reccomend getting Skyrim but the GOTY edition would be a better deal. I definitely would not reccomend Skyrim for the PS3.

1. No it wasn't my first TES game, but I played it before playing Oblivion which is what I thought your thread title meant. Yeah, Oblivion was my second favorite sandbox game until Skyrim came out and I didn't read any reviews before playing.

2. No. I found the first Mass Effect's CG was much more complicated than Oblivion's. I've played a few games where you get a heavy focus on character customization and Oblivion seemed a little light overall, but was a vast improvement in comparison to Morrowind. Skyrim's isn't...easier. The game is zoomed too far out for me to fine tune like I'd like to because I have a hard time seeing the details like eye color but the number of available options is better than Oblivion overall.

3. Yes. It made combat a lot easier, and simplified certain non-combat aspects of the game while adding other new non-combat playstyles.

4. No. Oblivion's combat system just seems a lot less interactive than Skyrim's is, and that combined with the better graphics caused me to move away from a non-modded Oblivion.

5. No. If they had a hard time understanding Oblivion and didn't enjoy playing it, I'd recommend that they move to a more RPG-styled game. Because sandbox games are probably not their style.