After lots of interviews with Harvey Smith and Raphael Colantonio (http://sneakybastards.net/theobserver/the-man-in-the-iron-mask/), after they talked about turbo Thief idea about they love the Thief series, I expected to see more challenging stealth AI in Dishonored. I though that Harvey and Raf understood when they mentioned Thief series so often that the huge responsibility fell on their shoulders. Responsibility to make high quality stealth in their own game!

But when I played the second mission (High Overseer Campbell / Dr.Galvani's Offices) I noticed, that AI doesn't react on your different actions. I was shocked, I was disappointed, I couldn't believe my eyes. I though that Arkane want to make the best stealth game ever made want to make an immersive sim, but IMHO it's not possible to do it with so simplified and passive AI.

I've uploaded that video to demonstrate most of the AI issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lm8_bQrqcg

Important notice: It's really hard to record an absolutely fair AI demonstration because of its random nature, that's why that video doesn't contain some really cool and impressive features which Dishonored AI has (random patrol routes, random barks, random conversations, reaction to stolen keys/pouches) and focuses more on different flaws and limitations.

As you can noticed in the video and read in the video description, Dishonored AI can't see through some transparent objects, can't hear unconscious guard's snore, has narrow peripheral vision cones, can't hear door/chest squeaky sound, can't see door movements, can't remember doors/chest states. Doesn't notice extinguished fireplace or candles, doesn't notice stolen loots BUT AI reacts to stolen keys, pouches and the opened safe! And guards also could randomly talk to each other if they clearly see each other through opened doors.

For example: Splinter Cell:Chaos Theory guards definitely knows some of these tricks!

I can't believe AI is so bad because developers want that, I believe that Arkane developers know how to make great challenging stealth AI! They know how to code it. That's why housemaid notice her safe was opened! That's why she has a special voice monologue for that situation. That's why guards could see each other through opened doors and talk to each other. And they can hear your steps very good. I just think that Bethesda or focus groups (or the lack of stealth players in these groups) or Microsoft or Sony demands less challenging AI to minimize trials and errors for casual players! To make the game more accessible and less annoying for them.

Anyway such AI is a serious issue for this almost brilliant game! This game has one of the best stealth level designs I've ever seen, it puts to shame almost every action game on the market. But such bad AI ruins stealth experience, doesn't make stealth really interesting part of the game, doesn't make thief gameplay style compelling enough, doesn't allow that stealth level design truly shines, doesn't allow me to say Dishonored is one of the best stealth games ever made.



So these are my uncomfortable questions, Arkane: is it possible to patch this out? Is it possible to update the game? Is it possible to add all AI routines, all reactions, turn on all voice cues to improve that? To make additional "hardcoe" difficulty level for hardcoe stealth veterans? Is it possible to mod this or tweak this via ini files or console commands? Is it possible to add at least few features? Because the game won't became harder for experienced players (myself included) if you'll improve that. Especially when any player has Blink ability and Corvo doesn't make sounds in stealth mode.

UPDATE: after Master Po's request I changed few really harsh words.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1417035-hardcoe-club-first-rule-you-dont-talk-about-hardcoe-club/

Read there and complete the game playing like that.
Then come back and complain about there is no "hardcoe" difficulty level for hardcoe stealth veterans.

And this is my http://youtu.be/f_om9EPIgsg?hd=1 on the first mission, Coldridge Prison where I got thru but tho I wanted to be as stealthy as possible, I got noticed by guards and had to deal with the problem there.

I'm sure you have used the same thing as many do.
1. Mess up
2. Pause
3. Re-load
4. Continue stealth play.

That doesn't work in the hardcoe Club tho!

I've already read your thread, self imposed constraints are cool! But this thread about AI issues.

I honestly think they did a really good job on this game for us who enjoy stealth.
But if we want to be picky and pick everything apart and just focus on minor things that you seem to be bothered about,
well then there is no game in history that you can't pick everything apart and complain about.

My point is that, when you say in your topic that AI is horrible, I don't agree with that.

But if you said, "there are some weird things with enemies not be able to see thru some specific objects that is mostly glass", sure. I can see that in the beginning of your video. But your title kinda tells me something else, that AI is horrible. No, I don't agree with that.

Side note, I've never experienced this issue your sharing here but that may be because it would not make any sense for me to try stealth and just stand right up in front of a guard that is behind a glass "thing\box". No logic there for me to do that, (but if I was looking for minor faults and such, sure) but I'm not looking, just playing and enjoying the game.

I don't say that!!! Sometimes Dishonored AI is very impressive. For example, guards follow you from one location to another location via loading points. That's truly amazing! Or a guard could see that hacked wall of light kills another guard and he runs around it. But from stealth standpoint (and especially in indoors location) it disappoints, it doesn't deliver.

So my point is that AI is horrible from the stealth standpoint, from the Thief standpoint, May be that 'horrible' word is too harsh. I don't know, I apologize for this. It seems I can't change the topic title

Side note, I've never experienced this issue your sharing here but that may be because it would not make any sense for me to try stealth and just stand right up in front of a guard that is behind a glass "thing\box".

Dishonored AI can see you through glass front doors (you can see them in the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lm8_bQrqcg&feature=player_detailpage#t=56s), but can't see you through some grating gates, fences, etc. As I said It can't see you through some transparent objects.

AI is [censored], not so much because of the detection, but because the targets just stand there doing nothing. The game should have been more about observing the target and finding a good location to strike. Instead, the actual game time is extended by finding these stupid runes.

Yeah, being able to see them easily without them being able to see you is weird.
Same with just standing out in the open, if you're far away enough, they won't see you. But you can see them fine (without zoom or anything), so they must all need new glasses.

At the door to the basemant in the High Overseer's Office building, one of the random things the guards do is crouch down and peer through the keyhole (just as you can). But they don't do anything, even if you're at the other side peering back at them. I think they don't see bodies at the other side of the door either. If the door is left open, they don't do anything.

When you take the oil from the wall of light, they just complain about the oil not lasting long. Don't think perhaps someone sabotaged it. Don't go to change the oil. Don't think perhaps they should "manually" guard the gate now that the "automatic" guard is disabled...

One nice thing I have noticed though is that they sometimes will notice that someone's missing, and say something along the lines of "someone should be patrolling here". I think even Thief didn't have this. But they don't look for them, or sound the alarm, or anything... Also they will walk right past others' weapons lying on the floor, and not think perhaps something has happened to the owners (which is good for us, as we can't remove them, but that could be because we have no reason to...)

i can see a few patches being released in future, and i hope they tighten the AI up a bit, i have noticed it's much too easy to take advantage of.

I love internet rhetoric. "Dishonored AI is pretty good, with a few annoyances and things I think should be changed" = "AI is horrible!"

Every game has some abstractions, some gamey mechanics. I honestly don't know what people are talking about though. Guards can't see you from a distance, really? Last night I was climbing a ledge and heard a twang letting me know that guards on a platform a long ways away had seen me before I saw or heard them at all. If I sat still, they soon started running towards my position, they didn't just give up searching.

Having just played Thief II, the AI feels much more sophisticated. I can't just tuck into a shadow and expect that no one will find me even if they walk right past me. If I focus on a guard I can see, I end up getting blasted from a tower I didn't know was there. And so on.

I think people get hung up on one or two things and it ends up spoiling your fun, whereas if you ran with it you'd be too busy playing the game to be critiquing all the time.

I was wondering what people are on about with the AI's criticism so I tried to investigate Apparently it didn't become clear enough that the AI's effectiveness scales with Difficulty. The AI works great with me and I haven't noticed any bugs and I am on my third playthrough. It hasn't hurt the game nor the stealth at all and I've played plenty of stealth games.

Maybe it is a case of: Person A has bug A and person B has not experienced bad AI as of yet and it is functioning properly. If that's the case then it would svck for some players to get the shorter end of the stick but it isn't really criticism towards the design.

And let us all remember that there is no such thing as perfect AI and there never will be unless you get me a competent team the size of the one that is working on AC3, and all of them just AI programers. Until then, if it doesn't hurt the gameplay, it is not a problem.