The number one attraction of RPGs for me is advancing and bettering your character. Eventually it hits the cap and I become saddened by the realization that my character cannot get any better in his skills. There's still the interest to find more powerful weapons and armor, but usually they've been acquired long before my character has perfected his skills.

In Skyrim, my warrior has mastered all the combat skills, and to gain more levels and be able to confront more powerful enemies and find better loot, he has to become a mage and a thief. This is something that I really wish to be improved in future TES games: since the game-worlds keep getting bigger and more open, player character's should receive even more options for customization - making things more simple makes it seem more fluid, but in the end its brings so much less to the table.

The attribute system in Morrowind and Oblivion was great, but the way skills were tied to certain skills made it a bit headache-inducing at times. In my opinion, for example, a warrior should be able to improve his physical strength to make him able to wield a greatsword with more precision. I don't want TES to turn into Fable, but to have a feeling that theres always minor and major things for my character to improve. /rant

hope someone catches what I'm trying to say here...

Yup. As much as I think I'd enjoy the challenge of getting a character all the way to the level cap, there are just some skills I can't see wanting to level up in order to do it. The magic I don't mind, in fact my warrior characters usually make use of one or more magic skills as a backup or even primary combat tactic in certain situations... but my "good" characters really don't want to have to go around pickpocketing people. I guess I could just use training - it's not like money is hard to come by at higher levels - but there's still those last 10 levels. That's really the only one that I see being really problematic from a "moral" standpoint as there's just no way to finish leveling it without committing a crime. My only way 'round it - as far as I've thought about it - would be to pickpocket enemies I've snuck up on, or target those NPCs who are awful but can't be "taught a lesson" in any other way (Maven Black-Briar, I'm glaring in your direction).

Yeah exactly, kinda like a two-handed weapon wielding berserker should be doing something more related to his taken path to gain to those last 10 levels or so than sneak around at the marketplace.

This is one of my gripes with Skyrim. With classes, this wouldn't be a problem.

Want to level Mysticism even though it isn't one of your major skills? Sure, do it. It won't affect leveling and give you perk points to spend in the combat skills, but it will make you better at Mysticism, even if you aren't specialized as a mage.

Yes. The way skill increases were tied into points to put into Attributes at level-up was awful.

More attributes! More skills! More stuff to choose from and make characters diverse! More differences between the races!

COME ON TODD YOU CAN DO IT!

Nope, sorry. I didn't catch a word of what you just said. Better luck next time, pal.

Hated how it forced you take the certain skills that increase your endurance so you can get more health points when you level up. If you didnt have heavy armor or blocking as major skills in Morrowind you ended being one fragile sonofabeeech.

Yeah, with classes (Oblivion style), he'd have "mastered all the combat skills" and then be at level cap (since only the class skills would advance you). So he'd still be unable to "advance" his character any further.


Personally, I don't see it as a problem, but then I'm not as focussed on "advance the character". If I've maxed out the skills I chose for a character, then she's "done" advancing that way. So I don't feel "forced" to use another playestyle. Personal opinion, of course.

hope next TES game has such fine pastimes as powerlifting and bodybuilding

I understand where you are coming from OP.

Personally, I think the problem runs a bit deeper than just 'character advancement'...if, and it is a tall order, open-ended games could be more 'open ended', then a lot of the angst would be fixed.

By this I mean that the 'radiant' system could be expanded on, so that players actually have something more to do with their characters, and provide a better framework for 'after main-quest' gameplay. I think the way to do that is to actually tie the radiant system into the in-game world and environment a lot more.

Currently, we see things like the vampire attacks on towns, random encounters, dragon appearances, etc, tied to specific in-game events, which are largely triggered by the player accepting or activating a quest, or doing some specific trigger action...rather than taking that approach, a 'radiant environment' system could change that for non-quest in-world occurences, simply by tying things to what the player is doing. For example, bandit and other nasties should start to infest areas where there is little player activity, on an increasing scale, until the player actually patrols those areas and clears them out...this would include increased random attacks and holdups on the roads, more bandit hideouts in the wilds in those areas, and should have an impact on npc travel and trade. By making the game world more vibrant, and with actual impacts from other in-world events or occurences, the player then has to choose on how those problems are going to be dealt with, without any actual quest to do them, or perhaps, minor radiant style quests.

My characters are advanced enough when they can handle what the game throws at them. I see no need to chase some number on a leveling screen. My success in these games is measured by my ability to get my character to accomplish what they need to. It does not matter what level they are at.

I guess this is because I don't play MMORPG's which are all about the levels.

My biggest gripe is that with the DLC adding more perks and new creatures that only appear at high levels I'll have to level up in things inappropriate for my character. The new perks aren't so bad. I can make a character specifically focused on being a vampire or werewolf but to see legendary dragons Vriddi would have to start using skills that just don't suit her.

If the OP is on PC a skill uncapper mod would fix their problem. You could continue to slowly increase the skills your character uses and level up. There is one but I can't recall its name.

Character advancement/development (within the context of a defined and specialized role) is what fascinates me most about Skyrim.

I have a dozen or so Skyrim Characters but none of them have made it to level 50. The reason is because I enjoy character advancement, but most of the perks I am interested in taking in my various builds don't require a skill level 100 and by the time the character gets to level 45 or so, they are so powerful that they are no longer challenged much on expert level of play. Master just makes it more tedious. So, I tend to start new characters once my current character makes it into his 40s.

Another reason I tend to stop playing a character in his 40s is that by then I have accumulated so much junk that magic items seem mundane. I prefer magic items to be rare, like they are in the beginning.

I have yet to advance any skill other than sneak and enchanting to 100. Been playing since 11/11/11 and I have completed many misc quests, about half of the daedra quests and the mages and companions questline but none of the other questlines. I like taking things slow and will only do quests that make sense for the character.

I too miss attributes but do not miss the way they were implemented in prior games.

I was only replying to the bolded part (I should've made that clearer):
With classes, only a few select skills would affect your level, instead of all your skills.

[Directed at Donchochino]: As for advancement in individual skills, there has to be an end somewhere. Yes, it's sad to see your Blade skill hit level 100 and know that your warrior will never be able to improve his Blade skill again. But the alternative would be no caps, and that would lead to unbalance.

I don't feel forced either. I do however feel very encouraged. My leveling in Skyrim on my main character slowed down to a near-halt around level 50. I wouldn't have went over level 60 if I hadn't changed playstyle. But there were 30 more perk points for me to put into a skill of my choice! Of course I changed playstyle and tried to max all skills. It's like dangling the Citadel-charged version of the Gravity Gun in front of my face when in Ravenholm in Half-Life 2. Of course I'd pick that one over the normal Gravity Gun!

This is one example of the encouragements to level up. To see a Legendary Dragon (there's even an achievement for killing one!), you have to level up to level 78, which forces you to level a lot of skills, many that you probably don't even want to use.

It's the same thing with Guilds. Nothing stops you from joining every single guild and completing them, and you will only be rewarded for doing so. You can choose not to join all of them, but the game encourages you to do it - the main quest forces you to join one (not really, but unless you possess Force Precognition it does!), and another quest cannot be completed without interfering with two of the "guilds".

And Star Wars was apparently bought by Disney today. I feel like aquiring an Akaviri Katana and commit seppuku.

Yeah, there's where the different opinions/personalities thing comes in. I don't feel that impulse. But it's fine that others do.