In the intro, when Ralof says "you were trying to cross the border, right?"... it seems people generally interpret this as trying to cross the Skyrim border. I thought so too, but found it a little strange. If I remember it correctly, they were ambushed at Darkwater Crossing. That's not far from the Eastern border, but still, it's not THAT close. And why would Ulfric cross the border into or out of Skyrim?

Then it struck me that Darkwater Crossing is exactly AT another border, namely the border between Eastmarch - ruled by Ulfric - and theRift. Makes much more sense if it's that border Ralof meant. What do the rest of you think?

Never looked at it that way. You might have a point.
As for myself I don't know what to think about it, could be referal to either border of Skyrim, or it can be the one you're refering too. I actually want to know it now too.

Interesting...

didnot Lokir say he was going to hammerfell

Could simply refer to an intention to cross the border, whether that be between holds (which i doubt as everyone thinks of Skyrim as one) or more likely into Morrowind or even Cyrodil, who knows what machinations or allies Ulfric was trying to draw into his rebellion? Just because they were picked up at Darkwater does not mean they were not on their way out of Skyrim

I never thought that you were all there for the same reasons. I also never understood why crossing between provinces was a big deal too, always thought it would be as easy as passing through another state or something. Also, I think that it can be interpreted any way you want to be quite honest.

I think it's left open on purpose, so that you can interpret it as the border with Cyrodiil or Morrowind. Doesn't make sense that it would be the border of the Rift and Eastmarch because both of those are Stormcloak territories.

He is a horse thief. You were trying to cross the border. I doubt you two were going in the same direction or traveled together. Wrong place wrong time for both I'd say.

I like that, I always found that to be confusing.

It could be interpreted as the Internal Hold Borders, not the Skyrim border. I like to think you were caught crossing the Skyrim border and that you were being taken to Helgen when they caught Ulfric and co. Probably not accurate but its good enough for me, though I still don't pay much attention to what the intro says, I roleplay so I rush through the Intro just to get through it.

Where you are caught has only a coincidental relationship to where you were before you got caught. The game is not clear on where Ulfrc was or was going to when he was caught.

That's an interesting way to look at it. The way I always saw it, there's not really much civilization between Darkwater Crossing and the Eastern Border, and certainly not much of an Imperial presence. It makes sense to me that you wouldn't be caught until you hit the Imperial roadblock that was apparently set up at Darkwater Crossing.

Another way to look at it is you *were* caught at the eastern border by the Imperials, and that Imperial contingent just kept you bound in the carriage while they set up the ambush for Ulfric's group at DC, meaning you were captured at seperate intervals. It's never really stated that you were captured at the same time, just that you were captured by the same group and put into the same carriage. Ralof says "We were ambushed outside Darkwater Crossing", but he could easily be referring to just himself and Ulfric's group.

Or if you remember the Devs statement in Jan 2011 stating the beginning of Skyrim was the player being carted as a prisoner for trying to cross into Skyrim at the border. and the number of threads discussing this snippet.

Hadvar also comments on Nord characters "picking a bad time to return home" or something similar.

Lokir says "if it hadnt been for you stormcloaks I'd be halfway to Hammerfell by now" or something like that. Impling to me a means of distance rather than a destination.

The op's point is interesting though, but as said it would be strange to set up an ambush between 2 stormcloak held territories. I think the more interesting point is how did Ulfric allow an ambush in his home territory. Laziness it seems to me.

I always put down the disparity between Darkwater Crossing and the Border as being yet another example of Bethesda's stellar writing. Just like how Makar Camoran got every Daedra Lord's home plane wrong in his soliloquy in Oblivion.

Another possibility is that Ulfric & Co. were captured near Darkwater Crossing and the original intention was to take them directly back to Cyrodiil via the Pale Pass. However Tullius either changed his mind or they could not get through the Pass (there is in-game evidence that it's been closed off and on due to avalanches) and so eventually turned around and headed back to the nearest Imperial stronghold, which would be Helgen. In the process though they nabbed you somewhere near the border.

The Stormcloaks were captured at Darkwater (not you), and heading back towards the border to Cyrodil maybe. Except they changed plans. Near there (probably near Pale Pass), you were captured and they went North to Helgen. That's how I see it at least. I think maybe Tullius could have gotten word from the Thalmor to meet at Helgen, instead of going to the Emperor.

edit: Err, what Lyn1964 just said.

@ Lyn and Korr: I thought of it that way, too, then someone pointed out that Ralof also says something about "you walked right into that Imperial ambush, same as us."

Yeah, that's a puzzler. Unless there was more than one ambush, but that's really pushing it.

Ah.. hmm. I can't account for that then. I can't think of any border crossing scenario near Darkwater Crossing, in order for it to play out like that.