I was at a friend's place earlier today. It so happened that he had not yet played Skyrim (gasp!), and being the good friend that I am, I *suggested* that he try it out with my copy.

He played through Helgen and seemed to enjoy it (and got a kick out of two-handed weapons and killing, generally), eventually finding Embershard Mine and deciding to plunder it.

However, I couldn't help but notice that throughout the time he was introduced to the game (with weapons, armor, controls, etc.) there was something lacking. He didn't read any of the manual, and so I helped in explaining some of the basic but not-so-basic concepts that were left out of the tutorial.

I feel like the TES games can be fairly complex in some respects (try explaining why giants guard mammoths ((for their grand souls(((?))) to someone who doesn't even know what enchanting is), and relatively straightforward in others (hold down attack button for power attack, derp). So, my point overall being that, while complexity is fine and simplicity is fine, I think that Skyrim's beginning introduces players new to the franchise (and even worse, those new to gaming) only partially and incompletely to each concept.

Keep it simple, soul trapping for enchanting is an advanced function you has no need to tell him about. Giants guard mammoths as its their animals and they use the milk.

This is why skyrim is as simplified as it is. People don't realise that its fine to be confused in the beginning, thats what its like for everything. But removing features to comensate for people who don't want to feel off-put in the beginning.

Well they can [censored] off.

You loot a body, pick up stuff and equip it. How hard is that? whats so wrong with fumbling around? Jesus christ this frustrates me.

I don't see us needing any higher level of hand holding. I don't think you'll find anyone agreeing that we need a more detailed tutorial. People already complain about the lengthy opening scenes.

I'm not sure I understand your comment about giants guarding mammoths for their souls?? I'm not sure the giants do a lot of enchanting.

With TES Bethesda has always placed that responsibility squarely on the shoulders of the players. You think Skyrim puts people in the middle of a story with no support? Try Morrowind. You get off a boat in an alien environment, pick your birth sign, class, skills, everything without any support or help from the game, and then you're done. Go play. Figure it out.

For me, this style seems to weed out the more casual players from those who really do care about lore and story. I appreciate that because it seems that means these things are still more important to Beth than churning out title after title just to make a buck.

Milk drinkers....Sorry ha. I don't know. I like the sort of Morrowind entrance where it just thrusts you out into the world with no idea what's going on. It's unusual for a game to do that, and it's what makes TES unique. If he likes the series enough, you'll just have to ride the learning curve.

I'm willing to bet large amounts of money that Giants don't guard mammoth's for their souls. Pretty sure its a subsistence living for them and enchanting is so far removed from their dim little brains.

I didn't really mean this from the Giants' perspective so much as the players', but now that I think about it it does make more sense for them to be guarding them for milk or cheese or whatever than souls. I just happen to look at Mammoths and think "Grand Souls" not "Mammoth Cheese" or "Mammoth Tusk".


I also never said that I found the game to be difficult to figure out; Morrowind and Oblivion were plain as day too, as far as I'm concerned. I just think Skyrim may introduce things in the wrong way or not well enough.

Giants have Mammoths for Mammoth cheese of course!

There's more info around if you look for it. The smiths in Riverwood and Whiterun offer a smithing tutorial if you choose that dialogue option. Farengar Secret-Fire will explain enchanting and most alchemists will explain how to mix a basic potion.

I agree with this, we don't really need to be told everything as we're starting the game.. Oblivion's tutorial was lenghty and told us a lot of things but at least one of those things I never even did (I think it was how to create hot keys, if that's the term, on how to quickly access items) but it's good to learn on our own. Skyrim has a lot of books out there which tell us things about Enchanting and Smithing (I've read the former, can't remember where I might have read the latter but I think I did somewhere), so the information is already out there.

We just don't need the tutorial to come right out and tell us because there would be no point in having those in-game books with that information in them, and there are even NPCs (at least one that I'm thinking of) that goes into souls gems and enchanting.

I wish I had the Random Alternate Starts mod back when I started playing Skyrim...

It dumps you into one of 500~ random locations in Skyrim instead of making you start at the execution in Helgen.

No tutorial, nothing.

It is better to find The Elder Scrolls than for them to find you. Arx fatalis (RPG), and Enclave (Action Adventure Fantasy) led me to this franchise. "M" is for Mature. That's all I play. I play zero "T" for Teen games. None, zip, nada.

I totally remember one of the NPC lines from Enclave "Die like a dog" LOL....


Hey theres an idea. Chugalugging potions in first, and third person .... glug glug glug.

Flame post has gone away.

I can understand how it could be overwhelming or confusing to new Elderscrolls players or just a new gamer in general. But its like that with any game really.

I remember when Morrowind came out there was a article asking if it was a bit to overwhelming for new players since you just get dumped off a boat. And if I remember right someone said well , thats just the way it is. And they will just learn as they go.

To much hand holding is off putting to veteran players , to little and it leaves newbies feeling lost. I personally think Skyrim handles it VERY well. You can just follow the mainstory constantly from one quest to another if you so choose and learn that way.

All in all , best way to help a new player is dont over complicate any answers you give them in regards to whatever they ask. Just to the point and let them wander and explore. Thats what I did when I was a beginner.

Good times those, when you ship off the Excise office and a warning pop up telling "You are on your own, good luck"