I know that in order to use dawnguard assets for a mod, the mod itself has to be dependent on the DLC, but what if i just want to use parts of a dawnguard mesh, and refabricate the entire thing to the point of it being totally unrecognizable (butchered mesh, + 100% all new textures... diffuse, normal, spec, enviro-mask, the whole 9)?

an example of something like this is my black sacrament mod. the base mesh used to be Nightingale armor, but it now bears absolutely no resemblence to it. if i were to do a similar butcher treatment to a dawnguard mesh, is it still bound to having to be a requirement?

i only want to use the lower half of the vampire armor + the fingers of the gloves. i will likely delete the rest of the mesh and build a new one into it from scratch, and none of the dawnguard textures

I almost sure that using any part of a mesh or texture from DG would require you to master your mod to the DG esm based on previous ES DLC (SI for Oblivion springs to mind).

You'd be better off asking someone to make a model for you. Too bad you didn't get a http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1401504-give-me-something-to-create-for-you-thread-4/ in. Maybe someone else might or you could "sweet-talk" her...

I always thought that, if it was heavily, heavily altered, there would be no problem with it.

I once exported a weapon I loved from another game, and heavily modified it to better fit into Morrowind. To the point where the two models, side by side, were not recognizable as being similar, I had completely reworked it and basically only used the base model as a template since it was the first I had done. I asked a few people on the nexus if that was fine to do, and the general consensus seemed to be yes.

If you're altering so heavily why are you even using it in the first place? Why not just create it from scratch?

And no, if you use ANY part of the mesh whatsoever you cannot destribute it.

Hmmm. Are you absolutely sure of this? As far as I can tell, the EULA isn't quite specific on it

I just don't see how mixing meshes isn't work created by you.

I mean, nearly all of Hothtroopers armor sets are only mixes of meshes from the base game, and he is well within legal right to upload those as if he had created them himself. Would the same not be applicable just because the original content came from a paid DLC? That wouldn't make too much sense too me.

It's obviously one of those grey areas, but I really see nothing wrong with it. To my understanding, the problem would come from redistributing content from the DLC. That isn't what is being done here. New content is being created, and no original work is being re-uploaded. I don't see this as a problem, though I seem to be in the minority here

No it wouldn't. Because he has permission to destribute the base assets requiring Skyrim as a master. So to destribute DLC assets, you must require the DLC as a master.

If he is destributing the edited vanilla meshes on their own, then he is technically just uploading game files which is a no-no, and if Beth really had a big stick up their rear that day they could persue him legally.

On that note I should say that this is all pieced together from the official rules I've seen everywhere.

This is technically indeed one big gray area and we could sit here for years discussing it. (And many of us have) Since none of us know for sure, it never goes anywhere.

My advice, if you're altering the meshes SO heavily, just make them from scratch.

But, theoretically, what if he were to upload a replacer? Nothing but a mesh, requiring no master? Is the work still officially not created by him? Because, as is, that seems to be the only issue with it Bethesda may have. I really don't see why having Dawnguard as a master would be necessary, given that it isn't redistributing content originating, altering, or from Dawnguard itself. As far as I can tell, its simply new content.



Indeed, certainly a big grey area. In such a case though, why not just test the waters and upload it. No problem seeing what comes of that if you are willing, right? Worst case, someone asks politely that you remove it.

Bethesda's policy on DLC assets has always been that if you use all or part of something from a DLC, your mod MUST have that DLC as a requirement to use it. I seriously doubt that will change just because it's Dawnguard instead of SI or Knights of the Nine or whatever.

And this is where I am having issue with it. It really isn't, is it?

I mean, if you were to create a summon Arvak spell, and include a copy of the meshes and textures for it, in a file without DG as a master, I could see that being a problem. But how is making a total mashup not creating new content? You aren't going to be uploading content from DG, you would have simply created new content, right?

No one could download your mod in hopes of circumventing paying for the DLC to get content from it, you have just made new content, that isn't related to, nor using content from, the DLC in the slightest. Its now a new mesh, new texture, new everything you have created.

We could go 'round and 'round and 'round.
In fact, as AV said earlier, the community has.

Simply because you changed something in an asset DOES NOT mean you created that asset.
You MODIFIED it. You cannot redistribute assets, modified or not, from DLC. Beth has ALWAYS shot that down.
Look at Moroblivion for proof, though in that case it wasn't DLC.

Looking to get jammed by Beth?
You simply go right on doing what you're expousing.
You're in the wrong and so is anyone who follows your advice.

...Just saying...

Think of it like buying a car. Suppose you get a Ford xxxxx. You can give it a new paint job, fit spoilers and wheel trims. Pimp out the interior with mink fur if you want. At the end of the day, it's still a Ford xxxxxx.

Yeah this.

What I don't understand is why the question is "Can I take this then modify the heck out of it." If you're changing it so dramatically, as I've said, why not just start from scratch?

If it's SO heavily modified that this is even a question, why not just start fresh and not even have to worry about this.

because it's a shortcut, and it would save me time. i will probably just do it from scratch anyway

It might take longer, but in the long run its probably best to avoid the grey area. It's not worth risking putting all the effort into your mod, only to be told down the line: "make it dependent on dawnguard, or don't distribute it at all!". That would narrow your potential audience, I'm sure that's something you'd rather avoid

- Hypno

If you start from one of Bethesda's meshes, you're creating a derivative work. Regardless of how far you take that, you're bound by their policy.

If you make an entirely new mesh, from scratch, then you aren't bound by their policy on how that mesh gets used.

This stuff isn't difficult to understand, it just seems difficult for people to accept as fact.