Deleting vanilla References - Still a big no no or ok ?

Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:03 am

There is a mod that I really like but has a large number of deleted references. (over 2000)

Im not going to name the mod.

Unfortunatly I ctd when i get near any area this mod edits. (when the mod is disabled my game is ctd free)

Ive had some correspondance with the author pointing out the deleted references. Their reply was that
"Depending on load order, if another mod is referring to a deleted item it will either override and put it back, or not, depending on which mod is loaded first" The author did clarify that deleting major elements such as quest triggers or linked refs would be bad.

So im a bit at loss as to what is correct ? the author or the long held view that deleting stuff is bad. Has skyrim fixed the deleted ref problem and its no longer an issue. (in which case i need to search elsewhere for my ctd issue)

Hoping one of the experienced hands could chime in and provide a reasonably definitive answer that I could take back to the author.
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Bee Baby
 
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Post » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:34 pm

Deleting refs is still an issue. I would not advise to do it. Rather disable objects.
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Nauty
 
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Post » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:53 pm

Still a no-no. There's still the problem of if a mod tries to modify a reference a previously loaded mod deleted, the game will crash because it needs to load a reference that no longer exists. Before another mod can modify a ref, the ref first needs to load (you can't do something to nothing). If it's deleted, then the game can't load it, the mod can't modify it, and the slippery slope just keeps going.
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ILy- Forver
 
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Post » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:56 am

thanks guys,

the mod in question mainly deletes objects such as food, and minor statics like fences and such.

So Im concluding from the above replies that its still quite likely to get ctds from minor deletions ie I could have another mod that has also accidently moved that fence post or apple etc and is now trying to find it and when it cant it ctds.

Im assuming load order doesnt matter even if the mod deleting stuff is loaded last, the game will still ctd ?
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Stu Clarke
 
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Post » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:33 pm

http://i.imgur.com/Pw8vV.png instead. A mod should never delete forms from other plugins...
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jeremey wisor
 
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Post » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:29 pm

Im assuming load order doesnt matter even if the mod deleting stuff is loaded last, the game will still ctd ?
Load order does matter.

Mod A deletes something.
Mod B edits what Mod A deletes.

If B is before A, it isn't usually an issue beyond being poor practice, but it can be in certain circumstances.

If A is before B, the game is operating in undefined territory. It could work fine, it could freeze up inexplicably, the object may end up hovering 10,000 feet above the giant camp west of Whiterun, or it could CTD when you least expect it.

The problem is, you can't know which mods want to edit what references, so it's just plain bad to delete a reference.

Wonder why Dawnguard introduced instability to the game? 126 deleted references are why. Some of which are in locations likely to get post-edited by other mods. Which means Dawnguard will require cleaning to remove this problem once that's possible.
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Mari martnez Martinez
 
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