So I just recently got DB and being someone who would have liked spears/werebears at some point but never once made a topic about it or even posted in one (that I can remember) and would not have been the least bit bothered if they were never implemented: I have to say....I actually found their inclusion in this DLC to be almost rather amusing in a cruel sort of way.

I mean people would not shut up about them and every time something was announced (DLC or patches or patches with content) the forums would flare up with a dozen or more topics, all the same and all flooding the front pages declaring that this was the time that these 2 things would with all certainty be added or flat out demanding it.

It really does make me wonder if at some point, someone in development got so annoyed with those topics and just went:

"Right, y'know what? Let's give these irritating people exactly what they want, with a twist!" ***insert evil mustache-twirling laugh here***

Followed of course by adding both into the newest DLC while making Spears an item used by NPC creatures but not by you and Werebears being in with absolutely no chance of becoming one yourself. I mean, there is no way anyone in development could have possibly been thinking of anything else but trolling on a grand level.

Personally, I find it pretty damn funny (normally I take no satisfaction from the dissapointment and rage of others but the constant influx of spear/WB topics has left me feeling rather sadistic in this regard).

Thoughts?

Well, it would be the first time Bethesda had actually listened to that group. Remember, lots of people (including myself) were disappointed at the removal of attributes but they did not change that either (just to name an example). I am talking about the 'Conservatives' in the TES community here.

Look but don't touch. Touch but don't taste. Taste but don't swallow... Right, guys?

Yeah it does felt a bit messed up how INTENTIONAL those terribly disappointing features seem. I mean how difficult is it to think of something for Werebears? They can be a stronger version of Werewolves, but slower but with different attacks... I mean, WHO. CARES? Just let them be there. Don't have to be a perfectionist about it.

And when I heard of spears, I didn't expect THROWING ones. They can be a two-handed weapon with far longer range, but slower and less damage, and would backstab like daggers.

Also, Dragon Riding... Instead of taking cues from mods, they just have to be original and make it a mess. Shouldn't have wasted their time at all on it and just focus on making something else. It's gut-wrenching seeing something with a lot of potential went to waste.

I assume they just didn't want to mess with the perk trees or create entirely new awkward ones. Perhaps we will see usable spears later. Seeing werebears make me dumbfounded as to why people care whether they can be one or not, though.

Well they did give us a perk reset option so who knows what lies in the future.

The thing is it would have to be a free update. Beth has ( so far imo) done a good job in terms of not having things in DLC's that we need to be able to use future DLC If you know what I mean.

Now they can just simply add more skills and increase the level cap.

I'm actually afraid of using the perk reset. Doesn't feel safe doing so; potential glitches are around every corner.

Werebears are nice for lore reasons. IIRC Skyrim is supposed to have a higher Werebear population to Werewolves and Spears always did seem kind of a "normal" thing to have since they were in Morrowind and when you think of the most basic tool for hunting and killing, "stick with a pointy end" is pretty much always going to be at the top of the list.

Still, these were never things that were anywhere near the top of my wish list and very quickly hit rock bottom after my annoyance at not being able to visit the forums once without seeing the subject come up even on topics where they were not the focus of discussion.

It got pretty ridiculous at times like when Dawnguard and Hearthfire were announced there were actually people coming up with crazy theories and reasons why these 2 things would *have to be added* and making topics where they declared it painfully obvious these would be included regardless of the fact that no Dev said anything and the trailers showed everything but.

I really think there must be at least one person on the dev team with a little decision-making power that frequents the forums and got just as irritated and decided to just give a swift kicking to those who were a little more...shall we say "adamant" about wanting these features. Wanting something is normal, I still want spell making and levitation back but you don't see me making a topic about it every time the previous topic goes off the front page or a new DLC is announced.

Somehow it almost feels like a blanket punishment for being so damned insistent. Gods I feel like a jerk for finding the whole thing so amusing

I don't know why people are shocked or surprised. Bethesda makes great games but other than story and the world everything else is always in a very generic form and just working enough to ship. That's why I will never play Bethesda games on a console.

Well at least with perk reset I can get rid of bugged perks that beth won't fix.

we think its funny too...

especially after we've made a "bath" with two funny girls and consumed a lot of bollinger champagne in our abu dhabi suite

I play on Console (360) and I honestly don't have that many problems. Big games will always have problems, and Skyrim is a big game.

I was of the opinion that werebears were quite redundant, so their inclusion as npcs seemed perfect to me. Give the people what they want, seems like they did.

Trolling? Probably.

Spears are easy to fit in. It's a two handed weapon. Swing with the attack button, bash away with the block button like a bow, and hold down both and you get ready to throw it for a lot of damage.

But, we get the worst possible implementing of them instead. Weak, nigh useless arrows.

hey hey... this means unexampled daring our friend
it was a voluntarily touch of genius from the great todd

probably we could have real spears in a future patch/dlc... who knows

I really don't understand the appeal of the were-creature thing. What will people want next, werehorkers?

Spears though, I can kind of understand. I was hoping for real spears in DB myself just to try them out. Not having them really doesn't disappoint me though.

The appeal of the Werebear lies in three things:

1. Werebears are just cool, you cannot deny that.

2. Werebears were in Daggerfall and since lore says they should be in Skyrim too, it is silly that they are not.

3. Instead of taking the time to implement such content, which could be done relatively easy, Bethesda has been giving us content like marriages. Though perhaps some people may find that part of their experience terribly important.

If you want to join in on the Spear debate than you must remember that is stings much harder to 'lose' something, than to never have had it in the first place. If you began the series with Oblivion or Skyrim you never experienced spears, hence why they seem silly to you now.

The TES series has been consequently streamlined (not necessarily the same as Dumbed down) since, well since Morrowind, (but to Daggerfall fans out there: That game was just too different, but I am not going to debate that here). Anyway, Morrowind was in many ways already a streamlined version of Daggerfall. Then 6 years later, Bethesda decided to streamline the series even further with Oblivion. Many skills and (exploitable) spell effects were cut including Enchanting skill, Spears, Crossbows, Slowfall, Levitation, etc.

Fans of the Series that had played the earlier games were obviously and understandably pissed, which made for a storm of complaints on these forums. We hoped that due to these complaints Bethesda would bring the next game closer to Morrowind again, but they did the opposite. They did not as much 'cut' features as they streamlined them: Weapon skills were grouped together in One-handed and Two-handed and the attributes system was switched for a trait system. While they did make some changes, to make the game closer to Morrowind again, the game steered further away from that direction in general. The game became more action-oriented which made it at some points feel eerily close to an action RPG.

So before you get mad at the people complaining about the lack of spears, you need to consider the whole story. That whole story is that there is a group of fans on this forum, that has been consequently 'ignored' since 2002 at most points. The build-up frustration is thus very understandable.

Excellent post and i fully agree-lets hope Bethesda make that a policy in future for all dlc, i mean we are already getting inundated with calls for wierd things in the next dlc, i know lets have flying werebear/werewolf/vampire hybrids!!!!

Error

I played both Morrowind and Oblivion but that gives me no more right to say who can contribute to a debate than someone who hasnt it isnt for you to decide who expresses opinions and who does not, particularly when it is just because they do not agree with you.
Bethesda clearly thinks your "group" is not significant enough, so no matter what you or i think. And yes before you say it i played both Morrowind and Oblivion and i happen to think all this fuss over spears is rather amusing considering there are so many bigger issues in the game. Do i miss spears? no not one little bit.

Where did I say that my opinion is more important. I am trying to make the people here understand why Spears are such 'a big deal' for many people. Either read my entire post well, or change your tone a bit.

If a political party does not listen to a part of its voters for a long time, than those voters will get annoyed. That is what is happening with the TES series at this point. This group might not be huge, but it is undeniabely there and very vocal on this forums.

You might not be part of that group, but consider yourself lucky that you can embrace the changes Bethesda has made.

I think you mistook my post as an argument why spears should be included, but I gave up on Skyrim a long time ago.

Werebears weren't in Daggerfall that was wereboars.

Ah right, I was not entirely sure about that. I never played it that much.