Stop doing this, they keep locking the threads for a reason. Only a select few want Raiding and Endgame does not equal raiding.

I understand where you are coming from, but you shouldn't be rewarded for not putting effort in. It's basic psychology; positive reinforcement and rewards. While I do understand where you are coming from, that doesn't mean you should punish the huge player base that arguably is what keeps games breathing.

I remember when I first started to play WoW in vanilla and was a SUPER terrible priest. I just was derping around and having fun. Then I saw this priest standing in Orgrimmar in Transcendence gear and thought to myself, "Holy hell, she looks awesome. I need to be like her." And I slowly improved, and put more time into it - nothing crazy, only 2-3 hours on Fridays and Saturdays. In the end I was rewarded with gear, which is sort of the way MMOs work. It's the way life works. We are rewarded for our success and for putting in the time and effort to get things.

As to that: Raiding has not always been that way. If you look back at vanilla WoW and TBC the steps were there permanently. Looking at WoW from Wrath on is a terrible model for raiding and gear ladders. Back in TBC I did Karazhan SO much. It was the first step for raiders, and stayed relevant throughout the entire expansion. If ZOS can replicate that, making it more of a stepping-stone system instead of a grind that people are now used to I think a large part of the people against raiding would be really surprised at how amazing it can be. I had more fun running Karazhan on my alts with friends than I did doing anything else in WoW.

But what people don't understand: Games do not last without raiders. Look at GW2 and TOR. Their populations have dwindled down to sad amounts. WoW is still going strong because of raiding. People might say they don't like it, but I think they would prefer to have that than have a dead game.

Stop doing this, they keep locking the threads for a reason. Only a select few want Raiding and Endgame does not equal raiding.

Last time I check the GW2 gameworlds they were empty. I could not call that a sucessful thriving game.

Posted this in another thread but it still applies here.

If you want to evolve MMO's you do so by making improvements to existing mechanics. Yeah you can add some new ideas but removing things isn't really evolving it or making it better, its just making it different.

I want to play a better MMO than I have before, not just simply a different one.

That I think is where my concern with this comes in. Make raids better and improve the mechanics around them, don't just gut it from the game wholesale for the sake for change. Make it better not remove it.

Stop doing this, they keep locking the threads for a reason. Only a select few want Raiding and Endgame does not equal raiding.

Posted this in another thread but it still applies here.

If you want to evolve MMO's you do so by making improvements to existing mechanics. Yeah you can add some new ideas but removing things isn't really evolving it or making it better, its just making it different.

I want to play a better MMO than I have before, not just simply a different one.

That I think is where my concern with this comes in. Make raids better and improve the mechanics around them, don't just gut it from the game wholesale for the sake for change. Make it better not remove it.

Stop doing this, they keep locking the threads for a reason. Only a select few want Raiding and Endgame does not equal raiding.

Then again, they did remove the "traditional mmo-combat" from this game and replaced it with an action based combat.

Would you have prefered them NOT to remove the "traditional" WoW style combat?

I'm not against raids, I'm against raid style that we have now where it is instanced, static, pre-scripted events. To me that is boring, I have did it far too much. In essence I want a different style of raid. I want raids similar to Darkness Falls, or Tower of Insolence with some use of the more advanced AI they seem to be working on. Also who says that the other ways of play are not putting in effort. There are also other ways to reward something than gear, such as achievements, titles, cosmetics, etc. By having the gear equal and non progressive (vertically, I have outlined how to have progressive raids with horizontal gear progression, but it was pretty much shot down with statements that no one would do them) across all play styles, you can have the raids rely more on skill and design them to be difficult without resorting to inflating numbers. This fundamentally prevents what happened to WoW which is power creep.

BTW TOR has Raids, it has quite a few for how young it is. If anything that is just proof that raiding alone doesn't keep people nor does GW2 and TOR show that raiding is needed to keep people.


And now for some comments to the things said right before it was closed.

Lycrates: GW2 still has packed servers and people getting forced into the overflows. I would not call that a failure.

Pangscar: There was a poster above you that just flat out said that vertical progression of gear was needed for his raiding, so yes there are people that are against changing things.

almost no mmos have raids at start. they normaly come in to the game later on when ppl starts to bea ready for it.

As I stated in my other thread: And last but not least, since when does Raiding = Elder Scrolls? Color me stupefied but prior to this the big negative was the game wasn't elder scrolls enough and now you want it to be further from elder scrolls? News flash, Raiding doesnt equal endgame. It is nothing more then a carrot on a stick to keep players subscribed.

Then again, they did remove the "traditional mmo-combat" from this game and replaced it with an action based combat.

Would you have prefered them NOT to remove the "traditional" WoW style combat?