Must say a few things about some "de facto" gameplay elements in modern MMORPGs, as a fan of ES series and an avid MMORPG player.

WOW was the last truly successful MMO released so please do not be offended or annoyed by many comparisons - it's unavoidable and natural to compare games of similar genres. (Was it successful due to the things i mention? History has shown otherwise with recent MMOs popping up like mushrooms lately.)

I want to do this to convey my own feelings towards what *I* want ES to be and to express my concern about ES online going down the drain like so many other games of its kind which failed to meet expectations in the last few years (not that i believe this game will be any different but i'd like to hope so). Also i tried not to learn things about the game so you will find me uninformed about a lot of things that may have been leaked until this point. So here we go...


Things which make me physically sick in modern MMORPGs:


The infinite quest grind

They said asian MMOs were too grindy. Even being a "lore freak" and all, I say that the quest grind is much worse than that. For one it defines the exact places you go, the exact monsters to kill, the exact path you will follow.
Still feel nauseus, for example, by leveling in TERA this morning. Speak to that guy, pick that up, bring it there, kill 4 hornless goats, kill 4 horned goats after that and so on.
Many quest lines you say? Still prefer to have alternatives like the monster grind or PVP leveling. Let us be creative about the way we level up.
Well, at least i can rest assured that they will not make the mistake of adopting that dull excuse of a concept that is called dailies in the game (at least not without a lot of RNG) right...? Or not.


PVP and PVE gear separation (and instances)

PVP gear. What? PVP gear are specially design for PVP! PVE gear are designed for PVE!
What a horrible idea. It really gets the prize among all the things i've written in this post.
I can't even begin to describe how unenjoyable is to have different sets for different kinds of activities.
The "epic armor of ultimate devastation" you got by slaying Dragon A? Useful for slaying Dragon B which you must slay to get the gear to slay Dragon C and so on.
It's powerful and epic but essentially useless in PVP compared to the equivalent pvp armor.
As for instances...
Good were the times with no instances. Best blend of PVP and PVE. Many may disagree with that ofcourse. Might be a little too hardcoe to be able to backstab each other in an instance but still made a game more interesting imo. I still can understand the need for embedding lore with PVE (at certain times) thus not wanting to involve PVP in it.


Punishment or rather, lack thereof

I am not a masochist. But let's face it. When punishment exists, the things you do right have more bloody value. You have died. So what? No biggie, just a small repair cost.
But no! It cannot be possibly more! To lose anything more would make deaths meaningful and avoid-worthy! By no means!
On the contrary by all means respec whenever you want! Choose from any skill you want anytime. Choices? They don't matter because they are reversible so everything is safe (aka boring). Besides planning or character building is known to hurt the brain.
Want it this way to appease the imaginary masses? No money from me (and from the masses essentially getting bored with instant gratification with no consenquences after a while).


"Free" epics are NOT epics!
(also the greatness of RNG)

Obviously an item that everyone has in an online game, no matter what color or name or rarity it has, is something common (and bland).
"But if everyone can't get the best items, they will not be happy!" - A myth! On the contrary, even if someone may whine about not being able or not being lucky enough to get that great item, it still presents a goal for him and keeps his interest in the game.
I wonder if they will "have the guts" to maintain some "real rarity" and also, add some good amount of RNG in the game. RNG is the spice of a game, a great source of replayability and one of the greatest weapons against inactivity and boredom. And i don't mean the pseudo-RNG of semi-useless WOW world drops and crafting. Even that though (oh snap 5 flasks with one go!!!) added a good deal of entertainment. But yes... RNG can be as addictive in an MMORPG as nicotine in cigarettes.


"AFK in Orgrimar(/Ironforge)" phenomenon...and soloing

What does this mean? It doesn't nessesarily have to do anything with WOW. It's the phenomenon of having nothing substancial to do near the "end-game".
At last finished with the "infinite quest grind", god it was a drag! Maxed out my professions and got quite ready for raids... the only bloody meaningful thing i can do in the "end-game".
Why? Because solo is not an option in the "end game".
Why does it have to be this way? Can't solo be an option (for something actually meaningful) if it is properly balanced? Ofcourse it can. And no, this being an online game doesn't have anything to do with it. You can't always depend on others. But you can still give enough incentives for people to party and raid together. For the love of god though, don't impose this
dependance on us by saying something like "to progress as a character you have to grind raid instances".


Player Versus Player please

Between factions only? In battlegrounds? In "open" pvp areas? In specific zones? Sigh... will this be another game with constricted pvp? Detained in some silly instanced battlegrounds or open pvp areas to control resources for which the player could not care less?
I can understand a few safe havens but i can't understand constricted pvp. It kills the realism, the element of the unexpected and the immersion of the game. Why has it stopped being an element in modern MMORPGs? It worked great in the past. Worked wonderfully for many games. Why, for the love of god, are developers afraid to have free pvp in the game?
Sorry but, in the end, the frustration free pvp may cause gets outweighted by the boredom of constricted pvp (fact already proven by past MMORPGs).


The "end-game" and short level caps!

I hate this term (and i hate Blizzard for making it the standard recipe in modern MMOs). People are expected to start playing and begin "the infinite quest grind" and then proceed to the "end game" where "the true game raid grind begins".
Let me let you in on a "secret": CONSTANT CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT IS A GOOD THING FOR THE GAME'S LONGEVITY (sorry for the caps). It amazes me how most mainstream developers (many indie developers have gotten this point and have actually seen some success) fail to realize this basic concept, leading to fiascos like the one of Diablo 3 (a reason among many others == not a fiasco for starter sales due to the franchise name but for the RMA revenue).
It has been made a standard thing for MMORPGs to have the "infinite quest grind" stage in order to reach a short level cap so that the player can continue to the "end game". Sad how most "salesmen" may think this is anywhere near addictive for players and even sadder for players to have not known any other pattern which would actually be more enjoyable for them.
Personally, i await for a modern MMORPGs which will not have this dull pattern and allow for constant progression or at least a SOFT CAP. And i do because i know the alternatives and i have played many "different recipe" MMORPGs like Ultima or the 4th coming... heck even Lineage II did it right in that respect.



Concluding... I would like to mention how childish this "hardcoe vs casuals" internet debate is. But there is some truth to arguments by both sides and there is one goal - making money from the game.
What a lot of MMORPGs (and WOW after WotLK mostly) did, in my humble opinion, was to focus much on instant gratification, hand-holding and rewarding too much OR following standard patterns. Will players really get addicted and stay if you pat them on the head and cater to their every convenience? WOW was already secured for many other reasons maintaining its customer base (which still did regress after WotLK), while other big budget MMORPGs like LotRo, Aion, Tera, SW etc failed miserably following the same recipes.

Wasn't it time this changed... or... wrong forum?

I can agree about the restriction in pvp...i am also very disappointed with that!

i stopped reading there and just skimmed the rest. just because you dont like certain mmo's doesnt mean they aren't/weren't successful.

What can i say, congratulations on skipping all the rest because of a sentence you didn't like.

You are mistaken, i don't include personal preferences in that sentence. I have studied their sales (as i have some professional interest in the matter, which is not relevant atm). Most of the "rest" changed their whole business plan, many went from paid subscriptions to microtransactions - why do you think this happened?

I added "truly" so that people can easily translate it as "most" as well, so translate it as "most" (which is a fact) if you would like.

ESO doesn't have distinctions between PvP and PvE gear, there's no resilience or "PvP only stats".

Also, I have not idea how people fail to understand how open world PvP works in ESO. It's an ENTIRE province. That's absolutely massive. On top of that, people can quest and level in Cyrodiil, they'll be doing dungeons, and you can gank the unsuspecting all you want. This is a wonderful compromise between no open world PvP and open world PvP, you're getting something in between. You would have gotten nothing otherwise.. or something much worse. why not be happy you can still gank? Anything outside of this only sounds like you want to gank people 10 levels lower than you because you have no skill. There will be ganking in Cyrodiil. period. If a level 10 goes in to Cyrdoiil and gets bumped to level 50, he's still lacking gear + level 50 abilities, it's still easy kills if you want them that bad.

I know you're directing this towards MMOs in general, but understand that ESO has at least made a decent compromise. People who want to PvE in peace can do so outside of Cyrodiil, and those that want to quest while watching their backs can do so in Cyrodiil. People who want to gank can still do so, people who don't want to get ganked don't have to. It's a pretty fantastic compromise, and I see no room for complaints.

Tera had open world PvP in a sense, I don't see where you're getting the idea that all new MMOs are devoid of open world PvP. Of course tera isn't without its flaws, and the whole questing thing I agree with 100%, but you're getting ahead of yourself if you think it is no longer existant.

I agree with everything you are saying MMOs have honestly been ruined over the years. And one simple answer to that ‘‘CAREBEARS’’ If you compare MMOs to any other game type you will quickly see that mediocrity runs king. Its like this type of game got infiltrated by some care bear hugging lunatics that ruined an entire game type. And i don't blame the companys as much as i blame the actual community for letting these lunatics run wild with their constant nagging and crying about punishment, because they just want everything handed to them.

And just like that this thread became ugly with prejudice.

And just like that, we have identified the problem.

it coud be one continent, if i cant PVP everywhere its not open PVP.

I am really bothered with all the new modern mmo trend. For example, they removed class trainer because some blogger complained they don't want to travel back to the city? I just played wow f2p and now my priest is getting all the new spells automatically without traveling to the trainer. It used to be so much fun to travel back the city to learn the new skill on every 2 level. Are they planning to get rid of death because corpse walk is a pain?

I want to know if there is death in ESO and what kind of penalty it carries. I loved the death system in EQ where somebody had to pull the body if you had a bad death. This reward only MMO with no punishment is completely out of control. I know that ESO started as a GW2 carbon copy. As soon as people complained and GW2 true color (a flop) surfaced, ZOS started to make changes. Some time tested stuff in EQ, UO, and vanilla WoW needs to be in ESO.

Please don't make an assumption that because I disagree with you that I am the enemy and the thing you were talking about. It quite frankly weakens your point by making baseless attacks.

5 triple AAA mmo flopped in last 2 years. Is "carebears" really worth listening or lesson not learned yet?

Better than nothing..? At least you're getting it. While I love the idea with open world PvP that you can you know.. level while PvPing, but I'm willing to sacrifice it to get rid of all the cowardly actions done by those who have no idea how to PvP and prey upon the weak. I have nothing against running away from the big bad 50s that are chasing me, and have had many enjoyable experiences out of it, but I hate that it's like telling PvPers to be bad at PvPing, and take out your frustrations on someone you don't even have to blink to kill.

For once I just wish people would leave the entire carebear, handholding, dumbing down, etc conversations out of threads regarding ESO. Sadly, I realize that isn't going to happen because some people don't understand games are made for more than just themselves.

There won't be a differentiation between pvp and pve gear. The developers want you to be ready for any encounter you might face, whether it be another player or a monster.

As for the epic thing, if you work hard at and specialize in one crafting ability, you'll be able to craft or augment some of the best gear in the game. Crafting is supposed to be important in the game.

End game... we will have it. It just may not all be in at launch. They've gotta leave a few cookies in the cookie jar.

Once the words "carebear", "hardcoe" and "elitists" are brought into an argument, it can only ever be a deconstructive one.

success shouldn't be measured by sales, subscribers, or concurrent players. if the company is profitable, then they were/are successful. changing a business model does not equal failure.