I spent many hours making sure I got all the checkmarks for no kills and no alerts on a single game file.

I also followed:

How do I meet the requirements for the ‘Ghost/Shadow/Specter/Faceless/Clean Hands’ Achievements/Trophies?

• Killing the Weepers present in the sewers beneath the Hound Pits Pub just before The Golden Cat mission will count against the Clean Hands achievement, but will not count against the achievements dealing with being spotted.
• If Granny Rags is Sleep Darted or Choked Out after destroying the Cameo in the Flooded District Mission, this will count as a kill and will prevent you from getting Clean Hands.

I put the weepers to sleep and got the thankyou message for capturing live weepers for experimentation.
I stole the sewer key from Granny rags and got out of there without being spotted by her.

So I got shadow for having no alerts, but didn't get these two trophies because of some invisible kill that doesn't show up on the stats.

Obviously this is not enough information for these extremely finicky trophies and other things are missing from this list. You should also include all the things that do not affect the requirements.

Does killing an assassin in the prologue count?
Does killing dogs count?

***Does using a sleep dart on Lord Shaw during the duel count?

Do kills prior to dying and restarting at last checkpoints count?
Do unconscious bodies that disappear due to polygon counts / memory space count?
Do discovered unconscious bodies count?
Does poisoning the elixer for Granny Rags count?
Do stunning the gentlemen callers count?
Does the game have to be played on normal to activate these trophies? (I played on Hard)
Does choking out the executioner count?
Does installing patch 1.01 have an affect? Should I reinstall and go back to 1.00?

Someone who created these ultra precise beyond the stats requirements for the trophies must have written them down somewhere for us to see?

Please and thank you.

That really svcks. I'm worried about this happening to me too since I just started my no kill/no alerts playthrough. I read somewhere (can't remember where) that killing the assassins in the prologue do count. So it's possible that if you killed the assassins in the beginning you may have to start over since those kills don't show up in your stats.

Also, if I remember correctly, killing dogs counts, poisoning the elixir does not count, I'm pretty sure stunning the gentlemen callers does not count, and I think killing before restarting at a checkpoint does not count since many people reload after killing or being spotted. I have the same question about discovering bodies and hope that it doesn't count. I don't wanna play through the entire game only to realize that something I did hours ago disqualified me and I have to restart.

If it were just a matter of the assassins in the prologue, then I would have obtained Ghost because the requirements say they occur "after the prologue". But maybe I killed an assassin which would have prevented Clean Hands, even if I had obtained Ghost. What really makes me angry is that the first time I dealt with Granny Rags in the sewer: I managed to put her to sleep without detecting me (I had run up and burned the medallion, froze time and blinked out so she didn't see me, shot her with dart from afar). I obtained both ghost and no kills checkmarks. But it wasn't enough. I hate that the requirements go beyond those checkmarks.

Oh I forgot that Ghost's requirements were after the prologue. Yeah I wish it were as simple as making sure those 2 boxes were checked. There are details that people wouldn't know about unless they looked on this forum or somewhere else online. Either the requirements should be simpler or they should let us know in the stats whether we met the requirements or not.

As I'm playing through again I got to thinking: maybe I got an invisible kill when I sleep darted Lord Shaw during the duel. After you pick the dueling pistol and are on the circle with your back turned. I waited until the count down was complete, let Lord Shaw shoot me once and switched to my cross-bow and sleep darted him. He was unconscious, but maybe like Granny in Mission 7 it counts as a kill even if the stats say you didn't kill anyone. I completed Pendelton's side quest and obviously he wanted Shaw dead, so perhaps the game just makes him dead?

Got Ghost and Clean Hands on my second playthrough (on Hard).

Things I did differently:
- No magic except blink resulting in Mostly Blood and Steel trophy.

- Did not fight/kill assassins in the prologue; only blocked.
- Did not ever talk to Granny Rags or do any of her quests (last time I successfuly stole her sewer key).
- Did not duel Lord Shaw.
- Did not knockout the Executioner.
- Did not kill any dogs.

It is very likely one of these things that prevented me from getting Ghost and Clean Hands last time.

Glad you got it. I'm following the same guidelines but I have talked to Granny Rags, but not completed her side missions, and I am using magic. Hopefully everything turns out fine for me as well. Out of curiosity, did the enemies ever discover a dead or unconscious body during your playthrough?

Worked with some folks in QA and at Arkane to answer some of your questions and provide some news tips.

Does killing an assassin in the prologue count?
No.

Does killing dogs count?
It only counts against clean hands.

Does using a sleep dart on Lord Shaw during the duel count?
No.

Do kills prior to dying and restarting at last checkpoints count?
They should not. Reloading a save should restore the stats you had when the save was made.

Do unconscious bodies that disappear due to polygon counts / memory space count?
No. Only if they’re actually killed (by water, rats, etc).

Do discovered unconscious bodies count?
Detection of an unconscious body would count against achievements relating to detection.

Does poisoning the elixer for Granny Rags count?
It greatly increases chaos, but that's all.

Does stunning the gentlemen callers count?
If by stunning you mean sleepdart/choke, you should obey the normal incapacitated NPC rules.

Does the game have to be played on normal to activate these trophies? (I played on Hard).
Difficulty should not matter

Does choking out the executioner count?
He should obey the normal incapacitated NPC rules.

Does installing patch 1.01 have an affect? Should I reinstall and go back to 1.00?
No, you should use the latest title update.


And for more "Knowing is Half the Battle" fun. Check out these tips...


Situations that could lead to an NPC being killed inadvertently:

• Sleep Darting or Choking out an NPC and having them hit an object when falling, causing death
• Sleep Darting or Choking out an NPC near a ledge and having them fall to cause death
• Sleep Darting or Choking out an NPC and having them fall into water will cause drowning death
• Sleep Darting or Choking an NPC and allowing them to fall down a long flight of stairs will sometimes cause them to die (possible with the stairs in the Overseer building)
• Placing an unconscious NPC in water, or even near shallow puddles, can cause drowning death
• Placing an unconscious body on un-even terrain near water can sometimes lead to the NPC slowly moving and falling into water, which would count as an NPC kill (in Prison Sewers for example)
• Rendering an NPC unconscious near a damage source (such as a fireplace or lit grill) may cause the NPC to take damage and die
• Leaving an unconscious NPC in the middle of the street or alley, where rats have access to the body, can result in clean-up which will count as a kill for the player
• Accidentally casting Devouring Swarm near an unconscious NPC could cause the rats to clean up the body, counting as a NPC kill
• Accidentally casting Windblast near an unconscious NPC could cause damage leading to NPC death
• Having a Grenade, Springrazor or Whale Oil Battery explode near an unconscious NPC could cause splash damage resulting in NPC death
• Throwing an unconscious NPC into a Wall of Light, or near and Arc Pylon would incinerate the NPC and count as a kill
• Leaving unconscious NPCs in the area around the large door on which the player places the explosive device in Prison will cause the NPCs to die when the device goes off. This includes in and around the nearby dumpster and behind the consoles and gate switch across from the door on the upper level.
• Rendering an enemy unconscious while fighting a nearby Tallboy can cause the Tallboy to stomp at the player, essentially killing the nearby unconscious NPC in the process
• Rendering an enemy unconscious and having another enemy throw a projectile (such as fire bottle or grenade) at the player, can kill the nearby unconscious NPC
• Leaving an NPC unconscious in the Brothel Steam room may cause “bite” damage due to hagfish in the center pool, killing the NPC

Thanks a lot Gstaff. Looks like I have to restart from a previous mission to make sure no one detects any bodies. Good thing I kept a separate save file before that.

Thanks for the info! I have some comments about two of those.

1) IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE DOGS! It's kind of strange that the trophy descriptions say "no one" and "anyone" and most people (and the dictionary) usually interpret these pronouns as referring to persons, and dogs are not people. The stats upon the completion of missions also solidifies this miscommunication when you see no kills even if you've killed dogs. Dog kills should be added to the "Hostiles Killed" stat. The dogs in this game are definitely hostile! If killing dogs counts against Clean Hands, it probably also counts against Ghost; as I can't imagine there would be separate counters for each of these.

I strongly urge you to include the dog kills to your "How do I meet the requirements" posts, as this could help many, many people.

2) Detections of unconscious bodies do not count for any of the detection trophies from what I can see. I always had plenty of unconscious bodies discovered in my shadow and ghost runs. When these sleeping guys are discovered, only blue bolts appear, and only red bolts seem to count as detections against you.

Wow, this is stupid. If the trophy says don't kill anyone, I should get it when I don't kill anyone. The game should not have random NPCs count - especially without telling me - as being killed when I make them unconscious with sleeping darts even though the stats at the mission results screen said 0 kills. People that get killed by other NPCs and not me should not count as having been killed by me just because I made them unconscious earlier. If someone tosses a grenade at me and hits someone else, how did I kill that person? If a Tallboy stomps on an NPC and kills it, why is that my fault?

I'm playing games like these always without killing NPCs, so it's not like I'm doing it for the trophy, but as I'm doing it anyways, I think I should get the trophy without having to worry about some weird, random exceptiion rules that can screw me over without even telling me. Why do killed dogs count against the trophy, but do not show up in the kills statistic? Are they kills or are they not, make up your mind before you write a trophy list.

...

>: (

I appreciate the clarifications. I do find however that the end stats are misleading then. I just did two run throughs where every single time I had "No kills" and "No detection" checked off. If bodies being discovered count as "detection" then that check shouldn't be there, and if hounds count as kills, it shouldn't say "No Kills". I'm going to try another run through for "clean hands" and not kill any hounds and hope it comes up at last.