I really think that class selection will play a much more important role in how many people develop a character. ZOS keeps saying that "it doesn't matter what class you pick, you can do anything - if you want a giant-ass sword, use a giant-ass sword and you can be effective.

I get that - But picking the right class can make you so much more effective. I am going off what I have played at E3, and from what I have seen from sanctioned reviews and such from press-playthroughs.

Let's say you want to play a battle-mage type character... someone good at ranged spells, but lethal once that range closes, emphasizing melee-magic skills over ranged. By starting out with a Dragon Knight or Nightblade, and then going heavily into the ranged magica abilities from destruction staves might be better off than starting out as a pure mage. This way, you have one tree for ranged, and three dragonknight / nightblade as opposed to more ranged, and relying solely on weapon trees for melee.

Class skills make up for 20% of your available skill trees (the number 15 for total skill trees has been floating around) - though in practice, it's closer to 30-50% - chances are you wont be using light, medium, and heavy armor at the same time, or dual wield, 1hand/shield, 2 hand, bow, destruction, restoration.

I am willing to bet that most people will tend to stick to one armor type that fits their gameplay, two weapon sets to switch from ranged to melee, and whichever guild tree fits their play style. So nearly half of their skill trees will be class-based (given that if you're not using dual wield, that tree isn't counted, for example)

If I roll a mage, then end up really enjoying stabbing things in a frenzy of dual wielded daggers, am I as effective, and playing an optimal character build as if I were to re-roll a nightblade? Absolutely not.

----- So many people have said that "your class isn't a 'class' per se... it's more of a starting place, something to build upon to design what you want at the end.

----- I think, as an end-game progression player, that it could be so much more the other way around... sure they're not concrete 'classes' but the skill trees these four classes bring to the table could be much more influential in how some of us structure our character-identity once we hit end-game content.

I guess I'm just a complaining minmaxer.

I understand where you're coming from, there probably will end up being a specific route to go down if you want to be the ultimate Mage/ warrior etc, I think they are trying to escape this trend though, allow people freedom to experiment with combinations like they've said with the battle age as an example, hopefully there will be much more than a standard tank/healer/dps, but more focus on freedom of play styles, more supporting/controlling/buffing types, as well as some traditional mmo types.
I personally am going to go destruction/conjurer play style, probably an all out Mage. Using your logic I will definately want to maximise this style in terms of light armor, focus on mate skill lines etc but I just want the best out of my main character, I may be more relaxed with other characters I make.

As a roleplayer I will take what ever skill line that fits my character. And stay away from the ones that don't. I do the same in Skyrim and Oblivion as well.

Yeah there will no doubt be classes and builds that are better suited for certain roles and gameplay styles. For example, if you want to be a full on healer with lots of options to ply your role you might want to lean Templar because its the only class that will have class given heals. Sure you could heal with a resto staff as a Sorcerer or Nightblade but the Templar will have access to the Resto staff as well as its own class heals. So as a healer the Templar would offer the most variety and options to heal and support.

So while yes the class system for ESO is more open than some past MMOs its not completely open as some might be thinking.

I hear ya. I just hate hearing "do whatever you want, and you'll absolutely be effective" - I'll likely make an alt that's akin to a classic-wow Shockadin. Plate wearing, self-healing, ranged and melee burst damage --- just cause the playstyle is fun. But for my main? Templar heal spec, with light armor, mage guild, resto staff, etc etc etc all geared towards the optimal healing character.

I just foresee in end-game PVE - let's say there an encounter that lends HEAVILY to melee damage, the mechanics make ranged near useless - imagine progression raid content type stuff - I know it's not likely, but I'm just scenario-ing. As a raid leader, I don't want to see a mage with a 2 hander "But dey said I was effective!!!" and piss people off because I want more optimized builds...

I would just rather not hear "completely effective" when there are builds that are so much MORE effective.

No offense, but you are making these ill informed doomsday posts with not all the information.

Skill trees for one character:

Race 1

Class 3

Weapons 6

Mage school 1

Fighter school 1

Faction tree 1

PvP tree 1

Armors 3

Emperor 1

Vamp/were 1

That would be 95 skills, plus 19 super skills. =114 skills

Correct me if I am off.

And there is suppose to be another 20 skill lines that haven't even be told yet. It sounds like there is suppose to be around 50 skill lines around launch. There will be many many skills in this game that everyone will be able to use.

I agree that it's not 100% open but I believe that ZOS is trying hard so that you can play the way you want and still be viable. Now a build being viable doesn't mean its the most competitive. So you might not see a Sorcerer using a 2-hander and heavy armor as competitive but it can still be viable.

Well im not the guy that's shooting rainbows out his ass with all the new school direction Developers have taken on classless skill systems. I've always enjoyed larger 6 man content and very defined roles with a locked in class. I am all for multiple specs in a class system, and having multiple specs being available to the player in that class to switch from. But I do suspect each one of those classes will have a magic bullet build that performs better then any other in its Role . its for the theory crafters and min maxers to find and I am sure it wont be long until its revealed .

Will you be using your destruction staff skills if your main weapon is a bow, and your second loadout is a 2 hander? No. Just because you have all these skill lines available doesn't mean they get put to use.

If I want to play as a heavy armor 2 hand melee character, those 19 skill lines goes down to 12

(not using 5 weapon lines, cause I am playing a 2 hander - not using 2 armors, cause I am a heavy armor player)

As a 2 hander melee fighter, it's doubtful the mage guild skill line will do me much - 11 skill lines. Let's say that every one of those 11 skill lines gives me something I can use (though with 5 abilities, one ultimate, that's optimistic)

SO - out of those 11 skill lines, three are based on my class. That's 36%

If you wanted to play a 2 hander melee plate fighter... and roll as a mage, whose skill lines offer little to no melee damage skills, you are less effective.

All I am saying is that class choice plays a bigger part in your character than ZOS is saying.

I do also have this feeling that the OP has. Yes i think there will be many viable hyrbrid builds and anything will work out for any class BUT im am also leaning towards the idea right now if you want to be the most efffctive at the role you want you will need to be the right class. Example..... straight up damage caster and be the most efffctive at it you will need to be a Sorc with Dest Staff. Offensive tank melee = 2hand or duel weild Dragon Knight. Just speculation here but im going to quess that Nightblade will give the best class skill tree tools for an assassin.

I agree. I mean.. just look at the bonusses they give to certain armors. Light armor benefits magick, medium armor is good for stamina, while heavy armor gives more defense and 'tanky' bonusses. Yes, you can wear everything, but it doesn't make you as effective. Still, we will have to see what the different guild trees offer in terms of magic/melee skills.

First, you can only use 6 skills at a time. So, you might use one armor skill, two class skills, one weapon skill, one race skill, and one pvp skill, so that would be 2/6 skills used and you would be kind of right. 0r---- and this is very important.....

You might not use any class skill at all. You might use 2 weapon skills(two hander), 2 armor skills(heavy armor) and 2 race skills(who knows?).

The point is, yes, 3 out of the 19 skill trees are class trees, but in no way does that have to define you.

And all I am saying is that you might want to keep an open mind.

I remember we had this discussion before on these forums, and we came to the conclusion that we had to wait and see how all the skills trees were gonna be like, before we could come to a valid conslusion.