So as most people know, user created mods have been a huge part of the Elder Scrolls series success. In Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim mods kept the game going long after the developers bowed out. Fans of the series have improved the graphics and created new questlines and other content that made the experience better and longer lived.

In an MMO, new content is the most important thing to keep the game alive. Yet, developers often have trouble keeping supply commensurate with demand. People burn through content faster than they can release it. The community, which is often willing to create good content for free, is too often an untapped resource.

If TESO would like to be a true successor to WoW, with millions of players still active for a decade after release, they should not let this resource go untapped.

They have already announced that there will be UI mods in the game, but honestly that is a pittance compared to what TES fans are used to.

My suggestion is that they implement something like Neverwinter's Foundry: http://nw.perfectworld.com/about/foundry

The Foundry allows players to create dungeons and even quests which other players can then play through. Knowing how great the TES mod community is, I think this feature would fit even better into TESO.

What do you think?

Neverwinter had to nerf the hell out of their Foundry because people were abusing it. Sure it's a good idea to have user created content but things like that should only be found in F2P or B2P MMOs. I don't want to give $15 to ZOS to have most of the content of the game coming free from regular players. Again its a good idea but giving people free reign on modding an MMO can cause a bunch of abuse. I mean in Neverwinter people were using the Foundry system to farm gold and items. So they nerfed it so it wouldn't happen anymore. I think UI mods is enough for this game. If you want to have extensive mods for a TES game just play the single player games

Edit: Now you might just say that ZOS could have people dedicated to approve of these mods before they could be released so no abuse or exploits will be gained. But now you are just making them put more resources in this when it should be used in other areas of the game. I just don't really know how I truly feel about this because of how people will just abuse the awarding system. Make a dungeon that's really short and east but has a [censored] ton of gold at the end or really good gear. Should ZeniMax not allowing rewards then? Then to a lot of people what is the point if you can't be rewarded for your troubles. There are some goods things about it, but I think overall the cons are just much greater.

How can people abuse it? Please explain more.

And why does it matter what the payment model is? Good content is good content. Who cares who makes it?

I editted my post to explain it more.

You can abuse it by making easy dungeons or repeatable quests that give a ton of gold or really good gear. That was what happened in Neverwinter and that's why the nerfed the hell out of the Foundry. People abused this really great feature and ruined it for everyone else.

And yes it does matter on the payment model. I pay $15 a month to ZeniMax to make this game for me. I don't pay them $15 a month for them to rely on other to make the content for them. That was the design philosophy for Neverwinter and it worked because it was F2P but if it was P2P I would have avoided that game.

Edit: I really don't have a problem with this idea at all. My only concern with it is can ZeniMax be able to prevent the abuse with a system like this without compromising other areas of the game to make sure this doesn't happen. I just feel that the cons of allowing people mod anything and everything in this game far outweigh the pros. That type of thing is fine in a single player game where balance is not as important as it is in an MMO

In STO the foundry gets abused as hell as well. I run simple battleship missions where the ships basically blow up themselves and drop good loot. It's a bit ridiculous.

There used to be no drops and rewards from foundry missions at all, and that was worse to be honest. Because there was no incentive to run a player made mission at all.

The Foundry is fun if that's all you want to do: Play quests made by other players. But to integrate it meaningfully into the rest of the game is basically impossible from what I saw.

That said, I don't even think that type of mod is the majority for TES games. Usually it's new items (armor, weapons), models and textures (nvde mods, high res textures, etc) that get the most downloads. If they add modability, I'd like them to focus on those things, possibly by utilizing the steam workshop.

I voted yes, because of two main reasons: 1. I'm all for player generated content. Hell, just for my guild alone, it would be fantastic. 2. There was a developer at a Game Developers Conference (or perhaps it was a Game Developer Magazine issue. I forget which. It was a few years ago) who basically came right out and said that there is no way a developer can keep up with the demand of players for content, so player generated content is pretty much a necessity. I don't remember, unfortunately, which dev said this, or when.

However, leperchans does have a good point. I love the NW Foundry, but they did have to drastically nerf it, because it was being exploited. Perhaps a compromise should be looked at by both devs and players: once or twice a month, the devs could have a contest or whathaveyou, where players will submit their ideas for different types of content (whether they are quests, gear designs, outfits, whatever). The devs then choose one or two of these (or lets the player base vote for the best), and the devs create these new content, thus preventing any form of exploiting.

Devs will still have to create the content, but they'll have the burden and stress of constantly having to come up with ideas lessened, which will hopefully help them create Zenimax-originated content faster and easier than they would if they had to come up with the ideas all on their own.

So you posted using the Foundry as a basis for your entire post, but don't know how or why they totally gutted the system shortly into the open beta?

Nice.

My input is simply you can't give players any sort of freedom like this without it being abused as much as possible. If you truly don't give a [censored] about your game, then sure go for it, its fun, but it [censored] all over the spirit of your game. If you don't care about your game, we sure won't care about your game either.

The user made content in Neverwinter was mostly horrible;
Bad grammar, awkward storyline, they seemed really out of place, etc.

I don't want any of that in the ESO.
And besides, ESO is a fully voiced game. Now imagine doing some user made quest where you are talking to a grown man with the voice of a 12 little boy with a cheap microphone.

A good point. The stuff we did have in NWN was...pretty damn close to fanfiction, which is not often a good thing. Talk about a possible immersion breaker, you're going to wish not having first person view was your biggest complaint if they ever implemented a system like the foundry.

I voted no, but....

If players submitted there creations and ZOS had a chance to take those creations and make great things with those ideas, then I think it would be okay.

Fanfiction coming from the Elder Scrolls community is often better than what the developers put out, at least since Morrowind.

With regards to exploits, I'd say there are easy answers. Whatever software the developers create to let players build quests and dungeons simply needs to account for it. They can develop some algorithm to detect difficulty based on the number and type of enemies. Players themselves would have no control over the loot. The loot would be automatically and randomly generated based on the detected difficulty of the dungeon.

Also, for those saying that they don't like player content, this would and should be entirely optional. Just like mods in Skyrim, you can avoid them if you don't like them.

@Carde. Please tone down the hostility and personal attacks. I haven't played Neverwinter (yet, though I plan to.) I've just heard about this feature and thought it would be interesting to discuss. Hopefully we can keep the discussion respectful and friendly from here on out.

There was no hostility or personal attack in my post, simply disbelief.

Its apparently not as simple as you think it is because there's two examples of two different games in this thread, brought up by players who have played the games in question, that have mentioned how it failed and why it doesn't work. You clearly aren't interested in any input other than the answers you want to hear, so perhaps you should label that in the OP before anyone else comes in here and mistakently attempts to give you a counter-argument of any kind.

I won't bother you in this thread anymore though, because I don't agree with you, and that's apparently not ok here. Have a good day.

Something to add is TES has a bit more lore and time backing it up, it's going to have a healthier community brought into it, along with well-thought out, lore-friendly content in the event that player made content is created in such a way. I don't think we would see Neverwinter's level of bleh from dungeons, but it would still exist I suppose. I too intend to play neverwinter eventually, so I don't know how you enter player-made dungeons, and what kind of options you have, but couldn't you simply stick to making dungeons with friends/playing them with friends? You shouldn't have to deal with the crap mods if you don't want to, which is the same for the TES games, you choose what mod you want to use and play with.

For this particular instance, I would be fairly concerned about exploits like Neverwinter has, and I can't trust the dev team to do everything right, but the replay value that user-generated content brings is undeniable if it's done right. I would be highly skeptical if ZOS announced something like Neverwinter's play-made dungeons, but at the same time my heart would be leaping in anticipation if it turned out well.

How did you get that out of a polite request to keep things friendly?

If you didn't intend to be offensive, then I'm glad.

I am most certainly interested in feedback because I have never played an MMO with user created content before. I've only played 3 MMOs in my life for any length of time. Many of the people on this site have much more experience with this type of game than I do and I'm constantly learning from them. I just prefer that learning to take place in a comfortable and non-combative environment, which I often don't get from your posts.

Anyway, I would like some feedback on my suggestion (which I would never have come up with if not for the helpful comments of leperchans). Why could they not simply take loot out of the players hands and tie it to the detected difficulty of the dungeon?

I wasn't trying to be hostile, its just how I am. Think of it like that Dave Chappelle sketch where he's playing Samuel L. Jackson.

"I'm not yelling, this is just how I talk, ain't you read my posts?"

Anyway, I played Neverwinter for a month or two, and aside from the absolute disgust at the F2P scamming the game was rampant with, the Foundry was intensely fun.

Until I went into a campaign that was just an area with a bunch of high level mobs trapped behind obstacles so they couldn't reach me, and I could still attack them freely. It was a farm map. You just kill the mobs that can't touch you, and since they're difficult, high level creatures, they drop good loot and good exp.

Stuff like this just can't be stopped without making it not even worth going into for anything other than storyline play, which I guess is a reason for some people, but not for me. But I'm like the T-Rex, I don't want to be fed, I want to hunt. Farming helpless mobs wasn't enjoyable either. And most of the storylines were terrible anyway, there was so many drow elves it was like some sort of bizarro realm where no other race existed. The foundry was the only good thing in that game, and then it was ruined by the players, and then consequently ruined by the developers as a form of damage control. All in all a bad time was had by all.

Carde, please stop with the abuse. Sorry, but it had to be said.

That having been said I 100% agree with everything Carde said.

Its a Thema that splitt me. I like user created things, but its needs quality control.

Neverwinter has the foundry, but there are so many bad quests ist hard to find the good ones.

I was initially a no, but I think a screening process would make it doable.

Also, players would get a 'reputation' for their content, meaning less screening necessary.

Screening could simply be a group of volunteers who are trusted by Zenimax, with perhaps a single actual zenimax employee overseeing it all.

I could see a lot of useless stuff being made, and a lot of 'easy loot' things happening...but I think that after content is 'screened', the team could assign a 'quality' number to the content, and then allow the creator to put reasonable awards which are governed by the 'quality number'.

Content which is easy would get a low number, meaning sub-par rewards. Difficult and well made content would have a higher number for better gear, and then the creators 'reputation' would be affected by either the volunteers voting, or the playerbase as a whole voting once they finish the dungeon. I would personally prefer the prior, because I could see it being immersion breaking to ask someone to rank their dungeon experience.

This idea could use a lot of work, but I think the general idea is pretty interesting.

Screening process would be the only possible way, but that would require a subscription. You ain't hiring people to review thousands of campaigns for free.

I'm personally ok with that.

No.

Indeed.

I think it would not be worth it in the end. The trouble and cost of going through all the user made content to get out a few decent ones... Nope, not gonna be worth it.