Call me when they start selling bag, bank and character slots.

I like the way you're downing my examples, and yet all your examples are games that haven't come out yet. Maybe because you can't think of a successful recent P2P game that didn't fail and go F2P?

Between 1 year of play time and 6 lvl 80 characters, I've spent about $30 on bank/bag slots, and it was MY choice. Much better than the $180 you're going to be forced to pay to play TESO for a year. That is if they don't go F2P in that time

I guess you're also saying that Blizzard has no faith in WoW, either? It has a cash shop too, and is P2P. Same thing, right?

1. You also notice how in that same quarter Lineage 1 (subscription MMO from 1998) has higher earnings than GW2? Coming in at like 38% vs. GW2's 21%?

2. Yes. B2P is the perfect way to be profitable. Defiance with its dropping its box price from $60 to $10 in less than 8 months says "Hello!".

You probably won't respond to this part of my post.

I believe it. Show me one of those games following suit? The wildly successful Defiance and....? Oh, right.

I won't be "forced", I am ecstatic to pay it. And all I hear from spending little money is you took the choice to not support your favorite game. Probably why Lineage 1 beat them down in earnings.

wrong. There wasn't cash shop in WoW in the beginning. Forget about WoW and look at TSW.

1) WoW is almost a decade old, released in a different market, and has been increasingly declining for years.

2) Lineage has the good fortune of being MASSIVELY successful in Asia, a luxury TESO won't have.

3) WoW, Lineage, and EvE (the big successful P2P games), were all released a decade or more ago in a different market. TESO is being released in THIS market.

4) Defiance is a bad game in general. Should I start talking about Mortal Online, Tera, or the other vague P2P games that were terrible games in general?

You have a weak argument... Look anywhere online. PC Gamer, MMO Champion, MMORPG.com, they're all saying the trend is going to F2P/B2P, and they're much better informed than either you or me.

The only evidence you have that P2P games can be successful are ancient games that have been out a decade, and the only games you can cite that are "successful" P2P games are games that haven't released yet.....there's a reason for that.

Why would I care about what a small, low-budget company with a nameless IP like TSW did in their desperation? If you don't see how this company and game is different, then you're refusing to see anything other than red because you might have to pay more than you had hoped.

You're right, I'm clearly wrong. That's why so many MMOs are NOT launching with a subscription in the near future. They clearly see its dead and are abandoning it.

Haha.

I like p2p. No problem with it, buy I won't lie just a little put off by a cash store. I play league of legends for at least a match or two every day and have yet to pay riot a dime so I can undersyand eso wanting some revenue and am happy to support it. Ultimately I am on the side of wait and see about the cash shop in regards to what items they have there. I will buy the game and try it regardless but I do want it to be fun, svck me in, and be successful.

Like I said, you can only cite games that haven't come out yet in support for the success of P2P....there's a reason for that.

Lol, and who cares about IP? This time look at SWTOR. IP means nothing, if a game is bad.

Great avatar. It fits to you.

Of course he is right!
Just look at all those articles he linked where some random people around the interwebs know everything better than the developers of MMO's.

We're so screwed.

NO_Walking,

In reality (on average) a F2P with shops generates more income to the actual company that makes the game, BUT, most players suffer for it.

Planetside 2 community is dirt, League of Legends community is also dirt. Star Wars community was [censored] after the F2P implementation (stopped playing after, actually all my friends did too). For me all the communitys of F2P games are, Childish,Bickering trolls who only want to play a free game and abuse/troll the other players either verbally or just trolling ingame and wasting our/my time... and when i try to have fun, i am ready to pay for it, so there is minimal amount of trolls and or afkers around.

Its a proven fact,

1. on average F2P costs more for players then P2P ( example, i started playing War Thunder, wanted the bundle on start and i know i need to invest more before the year is out, i used 96 euros in one go ). ( in Planetside 2 i used over 100 euros in 1st day of the game ). (star trek online, ive used over 300 euros to it in 1st 6 months). , so P2P/Sub is 50e for game 1st month free and after 13e or so per month, is cheaper.

2. Everytime a game switches from P2P to F2P the community becomes more and more trolling and childish bickering fools emarge from the swamps, making the good community players just leave.

Those are the 2 main points.

--

Basically ESO Devs have chosen good community and peace of mind for gamers, instead of F2P, everyone is welcome to troll the servers, and trust me there is tons of players who do it just for the fun of it. If and when ESO goes F2P, i wont play it, as i know from so many experiences from earlier games, that the game becomes much worse for players who want to play in a place where people care for groups and what the other player does/needs. = in F2P no one cares, people troll x10 more and the game just isnt the same.

F2P only works partially, if there is really no communication or very limited communication, like War Thunder or League of Legends, in those games you can have your fun, mostly, but many times people just AFK mid game or just starts trolling, resulting in ... no fun.

When someone pays a subscription of 15$, the chances that he will troll and or AFK mid dungeon run, is much smaller then when it would be F2P.

Facts.

Ahh yeah, thanks, that's the B2P game that I was looking for, since they are "becoming the standard" there had to be one! Clearly not WildStar, FFXIV: ARR, the ESO, ArcheAge or WoW though!

B2P is becoming the standard... Come on NO_Walking, like I said, back up your statements...

Massively and PC gamer are random people? I can see now why so many of you are so misinformed

Again, the only games you cited in support for P2P are games that aren't out yet besides WoW......I'll say it again......there's a reason for that.

Thank you for being the first person here to actually bring in a logical argument!!!

Game communities isn't a P2P or B2P thing...every game has terrible communities. It's the internet in general, has nothing to do with if you're paying or not. How many little kids, or rage quitters, or kickers have you seen on WoW for example. It's a gaming issue, not a P2P/B2P one

Youre trying to crusade for this and i know ZOS sees all of the people that are unsatisfied , all of the petitions and the constant comments that flood all social media sites. They are 100% behind their decision though, It honestly isnt going to change anytime before or immediately after launch. WoW had the same exact business model launching. Not only did we have to buy the game, we got 30 days free THEN we had to pay 14.99 every month. im sued to this and when the vanity shops for pets and mounts became a thing .. hell dropping 10 bucks to support make a wish or childs play wasnt a big deal.

They have thought this out. Are behind it. And until they honestly see it NOT WORKING they arent going to change their minds. its time to put the B2p vs p2p argument down for right now, we have so much new info to work with in the past few days. It is what it is guys no use talking it in viscous circles.

Your last statement is contradictory, "the only games you can cite that are 'successful' P2P games are games that haven't released yet", I'm sorry, but how can we say that unreleased games are successful if they haven't released yet?

I'm not too sure why you think looking towards PC Gamer or any other site will give us the answers as if we can't think for ourselves, "they're much better informed", pffft!

If we're looking to the past at games like Lineage that are doing much better than GW2, then why can't you? You have Defiance, don't you? Ahh, maybe you don't want to look at the other games in the past for a reason.

I already tried to explain to you how P2P is a rare model that has to be executed properly in another thread, but you're going full potato and not really paying attention to any logic right now. MMO vets consider P2P games the rare perfectly carved gemstone out of the dozens of uncut and unpurified gems. If done right, it is the masterpiece. Not everyone does this right. (SWTOR). You will rarely see these games released (3 in the next year hasn't really been done in like 8+ years tbh).

All I'm hearing in these F2P/B2P arguments is omg there are so many cheaper choices why would we play anything else?!?! The answer is rather simple: We want something a little more refined. I don't care if it sounds elitist, its just the truth.

Is SWTOR the MMO Jesus or something? BioWare/EA is the biggest joke in the gaming industry and people are surprised they ruined a successful IP? I must need to drink the [censored] koolaid a little more.

When you say "becoming the standard", BECOMING means something that is GOING to happen, in the FUTURE. Do you understand?

These are games that are GOING to come out and aren't B2P, the same model that you said is becoming the standard. Therefore, I listed the games that are COMING out, because it shows that MMORPG's are not BECOMING, the standard.

You're using a statement that implies B2P games are becoming more and more apparent, but when I list the games that are coming out and aren't B2P you scorn me for going to the future?

What are you struggling to understand here?

That's how it ends when someone tries to talk with troll

Some of us consider "players suffering" not to be bad community, but to be getting ads and terrible unpolished gameplay shoved down our throats. That's pretty much what happens with a cheaper made game. Sorry if you disagree, I'm sure your pool of experience vastly outweighs mine on this matter.

All I hear is the distinct *click click* as your argument gun runs empty.

I'm glad that we're in agreement that you using these in your examples is a poor idea and that your arguments were hollow.

Did you get "something a little more refined" with all the past AAA MMOs that have come out and started P2P? Lol.

Closed for a while, going to look through as there seems to be a lot of personal attacks in this topic, plus I am not sure we need yet another discussion on the payment plan.

This came from another similar topic (still open)

I am leaving this topic closed.