This thread is about the lack of variety that we (so far) see in TESO regarding PvP and the little info we have on PvE, and the fact that it's a sub based model.

Variety is the spice of life. I think (And I speak from experience of various MMO's played extensively over the last 10 years) that Zenimax is making a fairly huge mistake in just making Cyrodill the only form of PVP possible.

There is something that people need to understand: variety is good. Options are good. Just making it ONE THING is going to get really old really fast. Zenimax has decided to go with a sub based model. That's fine, but a sub based model generally insinuates there will be more content and options than an on sub based model. Why? Because I'm paying you for it. Give me more content. Give me more options.

Now, I've noticed that there are an increasingly large number of people who foam at the mouth anytime someone mentions World of Warcraft on these forums, and I must say, that's ignorant and childish. WoW is the top MMO for many reasons, none of them being because the game svcks. Just get over it. You don't like it, that's fine, 9 million people do. So just get over that ridiculous bias, and have an advlt conversation for 10 minutes here.

That being said,

World of Warcraft has many options for many things. That's what draws its users back in. Say you want to sub to do some nice PVP for a couple of months. You start off by doing some random world pvp out in the zones on a pvp server, and then you get tired of that after a while. Ok, that's normal. Repetitiveness is bad. So you move on to...Battlegrounds! Yes! Battlegrounds! But here's the thing: there is more than just one battleground. There are like, 15, actually, entirely different battlegrounds all with different goals and mindsets that go along with them. They are all 15 unique battlegrounds. Thanks, sub based model!

But oh, get this! I get tired of even BG's! well, that's fine. Battlegrounds are group vs group focused, generally large battles of 10-40 players each. I just want some 2v2 or some 5v5! I can do Arena. Arena takes PvP in WoW to an entirely different hardcoe level. And what if I get REALLY REALLY good at Arena? OH! LOL! There's a A FREAKING ONLINE TOURNAMENT SERVER FOR hardcoe PRO PVP. And what if I get really good at Battlegrounds! Well look at that! There are RANKED BATTLEGROUNDS.

So, there are 4 options of pvp STYLE and about 20 different "scenarios" to choose from.

You get my point? Variety. TESO has one, single type of PVP, and that's Cyrodill. I'm sorry, but nothing you ever will say can convince me that this is going to be hella fun for months on end. That's absurd. it's going to get OLD. We need other venues. We need options.

TESO can take away from WoW in the raiding and instance aspect as well. For raids, you have:

10 man

10 man heroic

25 man

25 heroic

LFR 25 man

Flex Raid 10 or 25

For instances you have:

5 man normal dungeons

Heroic 5 man dungeons

LFG Dungeons (Heroic or normal)

Scenarios (3 man instance

Heroic Scenario (3 man heroic instance)

I mean, come on. The point of a sub based model is OPTIONS. VARIETY. SPICE. You cannot tell people "You're going to pay to play the same damned thing EVERY month". That's...that's lunacy..and it will be the reason that people fall away from TESO. Boredom. Sorry, but that's just business.

Teso is about -9 months old. WOW is about 10 years old. yeah, you cannot compare the amount of stuff at all.

Gonna stop you right here and tell you that you don't really have a firm grasp on what you're talking about exactly.

edit: To clarify: The PvP and PvE are fine, and copying WoW is a terrible idea. That's how the last batch of failed MMOs failed in the first place.

I don't have a firm grasp on what I'm talking about? Really?

Mind explaining that a little bit instead of making a cheap quip in a thread without giving any more detail?

I know exactly what I'm talking about. And no one said you should "copy WoW". It's an example. Read the thread, instead of spouting your crap without explanation.

there is no difference between a 10 man, a 25 man, 100 man, etc besides the amount of people, that is not variety. Teso is not WOW, and never should be. IT is NOT a raid based game nor an PVP Arena based game. it is a RVR based gamed with several PVE similar to the ES single player games except requiring multiple people in many of the endgame things. You seem to be the only one who has a issue about what content is at the beginning of the game.

Also, as i said earlier, comparing a 10 year old games content with a game that will not be out yet is just stupid and nonsensical in the first place

Fortunately PKMN12 put it a little more nicely than I could have. You haven't played TESO, you don't know what the game is lacking, and from the sound of it you don't sound like you've followed the game very closely to even know what's going on with it in the first place. Your example is clamoring about how WoW offers all of this variety in the form of 10, 25, flex, etc versions of the exact same content over and over. Your definition of variety is apparently not the same as mine and the rest of us who bailed on WoW after 6 years.

There is absolutely a difference between 10 and 25 man. That's why there are 10 man and 25 man guilds. It's called a choice, variety. People use your thinking caps.

There are two responses I need to give you for your post, OP.

1. All games, whether sub based or f2p or b2p require variety. To not do so is called "stagnation," and the leading cause of the deaths of games.

2. Carde is able to tell you that you don't know what you're talking about because he's unable to tell you why he can say you don't know what you're talking about.

EDIT: Hurrr. Proper word usage is hard, apparently. I clearly need more coffee.

what is the difference then, please enlighten us.

Um, the difference is the fact that it's 10 or 25 man, and the difficulty is tweaked as such. It's either 25 people..or..10..I don't know how to hold your hand through this any more than that..that's a difference..

that is not much of a difference, not enough to call it variety, not sure how many times that has to be said.

More health doesn't mean variety.

So basically the same exact thing with super easy, easy, medium, hard and super hard is your idea of avoiding stagnation? WoW's current numbers would disagree.

What makes you think an option has to be vastly different for it to be considered an option? That isn't even the point. You're narrowing in on a single thing stated in the OP that you don't agree with and are using that as the basis of your argument against the idea as a whole. That's absurd.

The point of the thread is this; there needs to be variety and options. One, single form of PvP in Cyrodill will get very stagnant very fast. This isn't my opinion, this is just a fact.

Do you disagree, and think that there should NOT be variety in TESO? Ok, tell me why. But anything else you say just proves you're a foaming WoW hater who has nothing better to do than troll threads suggesting that TESO include more variety.

Yeah as above simply changing the number of people doing the content doesn't really add variety. Its still the same Bosses, the same dungeons the same loot.

Same thing with the PvP, its all the same arena E-Sport matches, ranked un-ranked its all the same.

Best advice is if you're happy with that others games "variety" then you probably should keep playing it.

It IS your opinion, notice how you are the only one agreeing with yourself here. The game will have enough variety and the RVR will be incredibly awesome. If you do not like the way the game is going, and you prefer the way WOW does it, please go play WOW. TESO is NOT WOW and THANK GOD FOR THAT.

Nope, thats still opinion.

DAoC is all the evidence we need to see that only having RvR style PvP is more than enough. To me sounds like you don't even really know what RvR style PvP is or you prefer E-Sport matches more. Which is fine if thats your thing, but again like i said if it is then you'll need to stick with the games that offer that type of PvP and not think that every other games must have the same type. ESO will be a different type of game with different types of content, take it or leave it, its really that simple.

Mmmm. More foaming WoW haters to feed the hate. So sad.

If I gave you any other metaphor and example, you'd be saying "Wow, you're right, Renzuu. TESO should have more options for PvP." But nah, you heard the word term "WoW" and like a werewolf in the moonlight just straight up [censored] your pants and started foaming.

Having RvR pvp is fine. But there should be e-sport options to those who enjoy that.

I actually do not mind WOW.TESO is trying to be its own entity, and that is why it will succeed. Notice how all the wow clones (which means most MMO) have failed? I play Rift, DDO and DCUO myself. Rift is a WOW clone in many ways, but it is still fun, same with DCUO and DDO but neither are WOW clones, which is VERY good. just because you think a game has to be like WOW to be fun does not mean everyone does.

First of all, if I was a frothing WoW hater I probably wouldn't have sunk a few grand into it and played it for over half a decade.

Second of all, you haven't played the game and are displaying a very keen sense of knowing very little about the game, while trying to claim it doesn't have variety already. What do you know about what it does or doesn't have? There's more to it than just AvA style PvP, though that is the "core" of it. Fact is battlegrounds and arena aren't necessary to add "variety" to a game, whether you're trying to copy WoW or not. And no, sorry, but 10/25/flex/LFR/hardmode versions of the exact same fight is not variety. THAT is not opinion, THAT is fact.

Played WoW from launch until about 6 months ago. Loved the game, it just became stale. Not wanting ESO to have E-sport has nothing to do with WoW or any other game. It has to do with having been playing MMOs since EQ and am now ready for a different approach to MMO's. I and many others are here for the main reason the ZOS has taken a different approach. So should understand why the reaction to yet another "OMG ESO must have features from a past MMO or it will svck/fail/flop".

ESO will stand on its own on its own merits, not what features it copied from other games.