I may or may not have gotten into the beta over the weekend. Regardless, my thoughts on this game so far could just have easily be from official videos or info from the website, so I don't think anything I'll say in this thread is off limits.

Note that my praise and criticism of this game so far has NOTHING TO DO WITH BUGS or anything else in regards to polish or unfinished features. I know this is a beta and I am sure the bugs will be fixed at launch. All of my praise/criticism is derived from the basic design desicions and core philosophy behind Zenimax's mmo.

As I said, my main issue is with the design philosophy. This game has strokes of genius, and it almost seems to innovate in some areas, but its insistance to constrain itself to conventional themepark mmo mechanics constantly takes away from the otherwise above-average experience. It dont think the Elder Scrolls was meant to be a zone-by-zone, level up, and then go pvp or "adventure zoning until the next patch comes out" experience. I personally feel like the elder scrolls franchise would be much better served with a virtual world / sandbox mmo with player-driven content, a bigger focus on exploration, more dynamic content, and a more free-form design philosophy.
So far, from what I've seen either in the beta or through the info that's been released (again I can't say either way) this game seems to be a very good themepark mmo. The issue is that its Elder Scrolls theme leaves you wanting more freedom than a themepark can ever provide. It suffers from this odd contrasting dichotomy between themepark and Elder Scrolls that ends up breaking your immersion and taking you out of the experience. The world is expansive and pretty to look at, but subtle design decisions make you feel like you're "on rails" going from quest to quest and story to story. You're just along for the ride, not actually a living person in the ES universe. Again, this is a result of the themepark mmo mechanics that make the classical ES trappings feel like an artificial illusion.

And the fact that they decided to go with a themepark mmo format means they had to strip some of the classic elder scrolls features that could've been more easily implemented in a sandbox or sandpark scenario similar to Everquest Next. Things like random dungeons (almost all of the dungeons are tied to quests and only relevant to that one quest and you'll never have a reason to go back there), to fully interactable environments (tons of static items and props you can't touch) are stripped from this game to fit its design philosophy. I can't comment on the lack of player housing and a crime / morality system since they claim they'll add these later, but the lack of these features is jarring. With games like Archeage having entire court / jail systems, as well as player exile from the main faction if they keep breaking the law and forcing them to become brigands and pirates, ESO had better bring it when they add their own crime system.

They also seem to be "Dumbing down" the lore and environments to make them seem more "traditional fantasy", particularly on Summerset Isle, where instead of towers made of coral, magic glass, and petrified starlight, we're stuck with washed out, gray looking Rivendell buildings in a traditional foresty environment. The khajiit subspecies have been retconned into just being animals and not actual people (so the senche-raht are no longer four legged tiger khajiit, just animals) This stuff wouldn't be an issue if this was DAoC2 but it's not. It's Elder Scrolls. So we're left with only certain aspects of the elder scrolls, like its narrative, and its combat, which many argue are the series' worst aspects, and classical themepark mmo mechanics which make the Elder Scrolls theme feel artificial.

In terms of gameplay, the game suffers from (or benefits from, depending on your viewpoint) a similar design philosophy to that of guild wars 2. I came to this conclusion by looking at the different skill lines (or by playing the beta). This is fine, if you like being dps, but healers especially suffer in this system. Group coordination is almost non-existant and amounts to just pummeling an enemy senseless. Again, great for dps, but not for anyone else. You'll rarely find yourself grouping with people in this system, as there's no real incentive to do so most of the time, and when there is it really just amounts to dps hitting things while healers clumsily try to keep up. It all just feels like a senseless brawl with only minimal tactics. I'm sure in later levels this improves, but the basic issues with healers and group coordination will likely remains problematic.

Sorry for the long rambling text. These are just my two cents on the game thus far. So my issues are not the bugs or finnicky/laggy controls that will hopefully be fixed by launch. In fact, any theoretical betas I may or may not have participated in have little to do with my feelings on this game. My issue is the basic design philosophy with which Zenimax built this game from the ground up. I'm not saying you have to agree with me on this, and I'm not saying my opinion is the only valid one. I'm just sharing my personal opinion. Thoughts?

Dissapointing, I guess. I'm not really sure how they would have gone about making ESO more sandboxy. I guess peeps should be able to explore anywhere at any time and not be shoe-horned into certain areas...

I don't know though, maybe someone should just release a Massively Multiplayer mod for Arena or Daggerfall. Allow people to do wahtever the f they want there, but with the scope of voiced dialogue, expanded combat, good graphics, etc. I just don't see TESO making a very direct transition.

What I would have like to sandbox see:

People running cities.

Taxes

Guards

Destructible Environments.

With carpenters and people working to rebuild

Contructible Environments

Build yo house! Build a whole city whoop whoop!

Unrestricted faction choice.

Can join/ spy/ betray factions at will (but might not be accepted back)

PvP available everywhere.

With bounties able to be set, etc.

Guard NPC and also Guard PC's

Lootable PC's

Insurance would also be something you could buy.

Also could have a magical "mark" where you can use magic to find the dude who stole your important stuff.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

However if I had to lose the good combat, pretty visuals, balance in PvP, quantity of explorable areas, etc then I would not be happy.

So I am willing to sacrifice everything listed above the squiggly line to play the game ZoS seems fit to think they can make well.

Overall it seems easy to get going to the part of the themepark you want to play. Lots of themepark MMO's get in the way of player enjoyment, however aside from faction/ race restrictions this game seems to get the F out of the way to let you play the way you would like to.

It's ironic that the game you're describing sounds more like archeage and eqn than eso

Yeah what can I say? I'm playing on the Ps4, so perhaps those games would be better... but meh, ESO will likely be the best Console MMO, so I resign to the fact that it's Themepark.

If the game had the elements I proposed I would likely be a flat crater in a matter of weeks knowing console players....

If what you are saying is true, I'm really dissapointed. With this game I feel like in a rollercoaster of emotions. At the beginning I didn't like, then I started to read about the game and seeing more videos and started to like a lot and I couldn't wait.

But now, while reading about the topic of the music and now this one (I think your opinion is very good and it's clear that you are just stating your opinion and it's clear too that you are a TES fan just like the vast majority of us) I have to say that by reading your topic... I feel "scared".

If ESO is gonna be another grinding/kill to win something/repeatable quests and there won/t be exploration, interaction and immersion...then this game will last just one month as subbed in 75% of pcs. If this game does not please TES fans, the game will be sadly doomed. There are tons of casuals mmorpgs where all the mmropgs harcore fans are playing and subbed. They will came just to try this and then bye bye.

TES fans will be the people subbed for more time and the most loyal, so if ZoS don't go in a way to please TES fans...this won't be good.

And I'm not saying "to please" like if it was all about doing what every fan wants. I mean that this is an Elder Scrolls game, and you can't just do another typical mmorpg.

If it's like that, the game won't have success. That is something clear and if somebody don't wanna see it, ok, just wait 1 year after release and return to these topics then.

The game is definitely not a grind. In fact grinding is discuraged. The quests all have decent stories witha few nice twists and turns but again the themepark mechanics constrain them and keep them from going all out, and it also makes the experience feel like you're watching an interactive movie instead of living in a virtual world.

Well EQN is likely coming to ps4 as well, so....just saying.

This is exactly what I feared when they in the early interviews talked about having some kind of hybrid holy-trinity, that it would be just like in GW2 where there is little reason to have healers and everybody can fend for themselves. This leads to less cooperation which is what MMOs should be all about.

Exactly, and this is exactly what happens in ESO and I think it will kill any sort of pve and even pvp in the long run

Yeah but TES main series also did away with the holy trinity. I think its a good direction to have the more freeform class, and a design philosophy that supports a range of "unconventiaonal" builds that I would be unlikely to experience in another MMO and have it be viable (Not talking PVP right now). I personally think that with a good group Co-operation will be even better! Taking a look at the nord Racials, and the Dragonkight moves, you could have great effect of support for your allies AND go in and beat stuff up yourself.

I think healers.... I don't know, perhaps they are more suited to larger sized groups? Otherwise, most TES characters probably focused on a lot more things than restoration, which is the only school that is in a typical "healer" role. The only people I saw wholly dedicated to Restoration was a few mages guild specialists. But for the player characters it makes more sense that Resotration for the most part is simply to accommodate the other aspects of adventuring.

I mean the main thing about the characters in TES is that they are Dungeon Delvers and Adventurers, and so if you were a really good healer, and nothing else, you better hope that you have friends sticking to you at all times. I think in a world like Tamriel this reality doesn't always heppen due to the fairly low portion of population of civilized/ main races > Hostile creatures/ races. This leads to most people (in game) having to learn how to fight if they really want to be adventuring for a long time (as most people over level 20 would have). My point is that is all of Elder Scrolls I haven't played, seen anyone play, what would be considered a "tank"or "healer" role from a traditional MMO sense. Obviously Massively Multiplayer will have different combat situations than a single player game, but still I think the danger that is ever present in that land preculdes people from safely standing in the back and just healing people willy nilly.

I think that's the way combat will be too. I think the A.I. is supposed to work together more intelligently and not aggro the same way that they traditionally do in MMO's so I think that the combat mechanics make the Holy Trinity fall apart. But of course until we get our hands on it that is just speculation from a random official vid and what I understand of the mechanics of the world.

Fortunately I think that they have a system that is flexible enough that they can update content effectively in Expansion Packs. Hopefully they will further shape it into a direction that the long-term fans of the series will be able to call it home.

However I will still get it day 1, because I want to reserve a name, and also I want to support ZoS in their fledglind days. I think I will be happy, but am further excited to see their development from here on out.

Just gonna say. Healers are still very important. VERY important.

Fair enough, I would appreciate an awesome healer, until then I just hope my ranks in Alchemy matter for something...

@Outlaw:

The system in ESO works in singleplayer elder scrolls games, but discourages group cooperation and tactical dynamics in multiplayer games. Again, it's like what happens in GW2. This is an example of ESO being held back byits conventional mechanics. You can't remove the trinity and expect groups to remain solid unless you also rework the way mmo enemy's behave. The ai in this game, at its core, still functions in the typical mmo fashion, so a lack of a role trinity doesn't mesh well. I hate to keep bringing up EQN, but that game is completely revamping enemy AI in a way that would that would be more fitting, where every mob has unique tactcs, likes and dislikes that determine where they go in the world and what they want and why they're attacking. In a realistic system like this, the lack of defined roles would be ok, but enemies in ESO still behave the same way they have for decades so without set roles fighting them just devolves into a sensless brawl

Edit: and yes, they aggro the same as in any other mmo.

Ehh? Groups are still very critical to the game. Especially for PVP. I won't say anymore than that.

I'm not saying they aren't critical. I'm saying that they're hindered by the lack of defined roles coupled with the traditional enemy AI that often allows most fights to revolve around dps. I didn't get to experience much pvp though so I don't know how it works there, but in a pvp scenario combat works very differently anyway so I wouldn't be surprised if what you imply is true. Still, PvE seems to suffer from this GW2 approach to combat, at least in my opinion and from what I saw.

Edit: Either way that's not even close to my main issue. The other things I listed in my OP concern me far more.

Okay, I can't go into any further detail anyways and you are probably going into too much detail as it is for this forum. The beta forums are still open so if you were in it then talk about it there.