The developers have stated that a crime system will be among the first post launch updates for the game. Now I realize its a bit premature to be talking about post-launch, but there's really nothing else to talk about now. Anyway, the earlier we give them feedback on this the better. I'd hate for it to be "too late in development" for things to change.

So here are wants/ideas.

Player Component

This is an MMO, not a single player game. In the single player TES series, it was fine to have all crimes enforced by guards. This game however should embrace its social context and use it to enhance the experience.

There are a few ways this could be done. First, have a report feature. If you witness a player committing a crime, you have an OPTION to report it to the guards. NPCs could also report things, but having a player option just brings that little bit extra.

Second, have a player enforcement feature. Now hold your horses, I'm not asking for full open world PvP or anything. KIlling a chicken or stealing a sweat roll shouldn't flag you for PvP. But maybe they could have a point at which your bounty is so high that players can kill you to collect it. Maybe at like, 1,000 gold, a bulletin gets posted with a warrant for the offending player. The first player to kill them gets the gold.

Third, have a player judgment feature. Arche Age has already announced this for their game. If players commit enough crimes that they have to face trial, put them on trial by other players. Players can decide their guilt and decide how to punish them.

Killable NPCs

Now, there would have to be greater limits in an MMO. In SP TES games, I'm in favor of fully killable NPCs like in Morrowind. The Oblivion/Skyrim "essential" system was unnecessary and unrealistic.

In an MMO, quest givers can't be killed, even if they respawn, for reasons of player griefing. Now, maybe it could be instanced. I know the game already uses heavy phasing, but that isn't necessary.

Just let me kill some NPCs. You could even place random NPCs around town who's only purpose is to populate the world. And be killed of course.

Sound sadistic? Well yes, yes it is. But this is a role playing game. Some of my characters would never dream of killing an innocent. Others are just terrible people.

Real Consequences

Crime shouldn't pay. Really, in the long run, I want crime to be costly. It should take a good deal of skill and stealth to get away with things. Things like locking players out of play or regressing character progression are taking it too far. But the monetary value of fines should always be higher than any potential gain.

So what would you all like to see? Where did I go wrong and what am I missing?

What I would like out of crime . . . a bag of coins and some skooma . . . . HAHA jk

Seriously, those are some great suggestions Nordjitsu. I love the idea that players and NPCs can participate as crime watch dogs, and be members of the the trial squad. Personally, I think that crime should pay well in some ways if you are good enough and aren't caught.

Bounties on players that other people can collect by capturing or killing them would also be great.

I like your ideas
I hope the real thing will also be original.

love the ideas, yay for player collebtable bounties.

I agree that there should be rewards for successful crime. But it should be hard. And the penalties should outweigh the benefits or else its unrealistic and no one has a reason NOT to do it.

I like it. Fits with the theme park MMO nicely without stepping over the line into scary sandbox-ville.

The one caveat I would add to the bounty system is, players have to actively seek and take the bounty for themselves. It should require you putting money down to take the contract too, maybe 10% of the score up front, then you get that back plus the reward when you get the kill. Any number of people can take the contract but only the player/group who kills them gets the reward and once they've been killed by a bounty hunter, their bounty is reset. Of course if they get killed by a mob or fall damage or by a hostile in PvP their bounty remains.

Also, I think the player court system, while interesting, requires far too much investment from players who aren't RPers. Hell I was with a massive settlement on Wurm with hundreds of people and we had self-imposed RP court sessions. It was awesome, but man it was a lot of planning a prep work by players, and at least 30 people involved from witnesses to jury to barristers to judges and all that...it was nuts. Awesome, yes, but nuts. The judge for the city new his stuff, was impressive as hell, but unless there was a very simple petition system, something that players didn't have to "show up" for but could do at any time (with a certain deadline of course) then I could see it working.

Curious, how exactly does it work in Archeage?

This is across the board for me, from FFA full-loot PvP, to crime systems like TES has and ESO may have. The problem with FFA games is there is no reason not to be a murdering thief. If you are going to be a bandit, you are BETTER OFF murdering the person you robbed. Better yet, you don't even have to rob them, just gank them and take their stuff off their corpse.

This has always been what I've hated about FFA PvP games is the total lack of law and order, consequence to actions that occurs. Relying solely on players in that aspect will never work, for the simple reason you stated: being the bad guy is more rewarding.

I would love to see a game embrace the idea of "just because we allow you to do something, doesn't mean its a good idea." Only the best, most skilled players should last as criminals. Always wanted a game that punished repeat offenders, I'm talking public enemy #1 who's been to jail multiple times, killed over a hundred innocent people, stolen X amount of stuff or a combination thereof to be executed, aka perma-death for that character. But only IF they get caught.

Anyway, I digress, I like your ideas, you saying what you said got me riled up though, in a good way.

I want to be on the fringes of society, too scared to go back in because of my bounty or miscellaneous whatevers

And for those who speak bad names too much - conversion to silent animal for three days.

I was with you till sweat roll....ewww

good ideas, how implementable some would be is a whole other pickle though.

I disagree on the last one. Crime should pay extremely well, but it should be high risk as well. That's what crime is. High risk, high reward. It will be difficult enough with the other restrictions Nordjitsu mentioned.

I'm torn. On the one hand, there is a thrill of getting away with a crime, knowing you face stiff penalties if caught... on the other hand, I hated how, in some games (and I may or may not be thinking of TES games; memory is foggy and I might've been using a mod, even)... but in some games, if you committed a crime, EVERYONE EVERYWHERE knew about it INSTANTLY. In other games, you could "get away" with a crime if you killed any witnesses to the crime. My problem is, I'm a thief, not a murderer. I'll steal everything that isn't nailed down, but I'm reluctant to shiv an honest shopkeep who's just defending his stuff.

In any event, I would hope/assume there would be some means of removing your bounty; in Oblivion, I remember, you could visit specific NPCs in the thieves guild and they would erase your bounty for a lower price than the ~guards~ would erase your bounty (assuming they LET you pay off your fines and did not try to kill you on sight). One time, in Oblivion, I let myself get caught just to try to escape from jail. I escaped from jail, but of course that INCREASED my notoriety. I dimly remember getting caught in Skyrim, near Winterhold, and having to escape from an ice prison... fleeing across the ice floes with foes in pursuit. Good stuff.

One thing that I am resolutely against is player bounties EXCEPT in Cyrodiil. I feel confident that they would not put a PvP element in the PvE game world, but if I have a bounty AND I enter Cyrodiil, I have no problem with player bounties. Heck, if a player kills me and DOESN'T know about the bounty, I wouldn't mind if my corpse dropped a Wanted poster that told the person where to go to collect the reward.

Speaking of... instead of paying off your bounty to the authorities or paying a lesser amount to the thieves guild to get them to "fix" things for you, it would be neat if you could occasionally find Wanted posters that you could tear down and they would reduce your notoriety. They'd be like crafting nodes, in the sense that they respawn in different locations over time. Of course if you had no bounty, there's be no Watned signs (phasing tech for the win).

I can't WAIT for the crime/justice/thieving system to be added.

hmm yea crimes,, good thing i hope that this game isnt 1 big grind to get gold for nice armor skins and weapon skins. if its a grind and there is crime like pickpocking my bosmer wil be a master thief i think

Ya if you read my other comments on this you'll see that's basically what I'm saying. High risk/high reward, but with the risk higher than the reward.

In real life, you can rob a bank and get really rich really quick. But if you get caught you're going away for a long time.

I want them to preserve that ratio of risk to reward for the game. If I can try to steal a 1,000 gold item, and the fine for doing so is less than 1,000 gold, why would I not try? The fine should be like 50% higher than the value of the item you're trying to steal.

Or, for every crime, DEATH!

Steal a sweetroll? To the chopping block!

Okay just kidding. I do like the 50% increase though. I hope the crime system is fun

if you can go to jail. i would like to have the ability to break people out of jail