Feeling cynical, but there's no reason I can't twist my cynicism in a humorous "I'm laughing with you, not at you" manner and have fun with it. And so...? Post your strange Bethesda design philosophies here, AKA post things that make you go "lolwaitwhy r we doin this again?"

1. "Let's hire one big named voice actor and kill him off as quickly as possible."

Last seen: Fallout 3

Avoided in: New Vegas, Skyrim, Morrowind (inb4 "NEW VEGAS NAWT BETHESDA" yeah but they held the purse strings to the voice acting)

Notable examples: Uriel Septim, Dad

I think many of us question why they make a big deal out of a certain big-named voice actor pre-release, then when we all get the game, we quickly discover that they killed off the very person they were showing off almost -IMMEDIATELY-. This is made even MORE confusing and strange by the fact that when New Vegas was released, it managed an entire cast of big-name actors and actresses doing various unique voices in what ended up being the game that holds the world record for most lines of recorded dialog, and then suddenly the voice cast of Skyrim is, once again, quite modest (though it at least avoided killing off their big-names immediately). I mean we could argue they might've hired Picard for Uriel Septim because that's all they could afford back then and thus Uriel had to be killed cause it was him or Bethesda's accountant, but in light of the budget spent on NV voice actors and the scope of it's cast, one has to wonder why it was always "just one" for a while.

2. "Kids should be as annoying and infuriating as possible." Alternatively: "Short people svck."

Last Seen: Skyrim

Avoided in: ATTEMPTED in New Vegas (successful??)

Notable examples: Every child ever

Even before children existed in Bethesda games, there were male wood elves. Never the females, mind you. The females were quite normal and tolerable. But the male ones? Those short, vertically challenged male wood elves? They had a reputation of being the most annoying race in the Elder Scrolls, as if they were specifically designed to enrage the player and encourage him to make montage videos of the character dying, whether it be Fargoth, Glarthir, the Adoring Fan or that guy that asks you for tons of money and then tries to kill you.

Then children were implemented. Then children were annoying as hell. And hell, even in Skyrim, male wood elves are -SUDDENLY- normal, as if Bethesda said "hey male wood elves, we're afraid we're gonna have to fire you, we found someone better." Sure enough, you get Braith and every other kid telling you how much you svck or how much they think you're a loser, as if they just know they're immortal.

It's quite an odd pattern of kid behavior in Bethesda games when, in contrast, you have Josh Sawyer of Obsidian openly apologizing for and regretting the implimentation of a singular child NPC within New Vegas with about ~3 lines of dialog who is often referred to as annoying, with Sawyer arguing that driving the player to want to attack an immortal NPC can be downright immersion-breaking and thus his goal was to "make children as inoffensive as possible." Meanwhile, you have Todd Howard saying "LOL AND THEN BRAITH KICKS YOU IN THE GROIN AND SPITS IN YOUR CHEERIOS, PROGRAM THAT IN" and all of us loyal fans can only look on and wonder why.

3. "Tell them how amazing a place is, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCKjctTWIsw

Last Seen: Skyrim

Avoided in: Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas, Morrowind (Kind of. It's certainly understandable if someone were to say the realization that Nipton or the inner D.C. area around GNR aren't actual towns is kinda disappointing)

Notable Examples: Kvatch, Winterhold

Am I the only one who was seriously bummed when I heard "OMG KVATCH IS AMAZING ONLY OTHER TOWN WITH AN ARENA" and "OMG THE WOMEN IN KVATCH ARE HOT AS HELL" only to realize that yes, Kvatch is always destroyed (I was naive back then and thought maybe I could beat the Daedra there) and no, it doesn't rebuild? I doubt it, because there's a mod specifically designed to remedy'ing that exact want.

And I know I'm not the only one who was disappointed when I realized THE LEGENDARY ANCIENT NORD TOWN OF WINTERHOLD was actually a hotel with a chicken.

Seriously, is there a reason for this, or is this just what happens when Bethesda realizes that designing an entire land with established lore is rly rly hard? Certainly would explain why the Fallouts tend to subvert this.

4. "Boss fights are where other people do all the work and you just watch."

Last Seen: Skyrim

Avoided in: New Vegas, Morrowind (unless you count Keening and Sunder as doing all the work)

Notable examples: Martin Septim, Liberty Prime, the Three Thu'um guys (no I don't remember their names nor care. One was Wonder Woman though and she got ate)

Something tells me Bethesda doesn't quite understand what a boss fight is anymore, or that when anyone suggests introducing a boss fight into a Bethesda game, everyone just loudly groans and moans until Todd Howard agrees to take them to Dairy Queen instead of making them work on one. It's one thing to have a disappointing anti-climactic boss fight where the boss simply fails to impress and meet expectations because he's too easy, it's another thing entirely to have someone or something show up and do all the work for you to such an extent where it's actually DIFFICULT (or impossible) to take part in the fight without their help getting in the way of you, yknow, actually experiencing some combat.

Those are mine I've noticed that always make me go "lolwut."

Anyone else got one?

Don't have any "deep" responses at the moment, just a couple little things that popped out at me...

I'm likely speaking as someone who didn't hang out on all the Fallout 3 news before release (I noticed articles about it, but didn't troll every preview/forum/spoiler), but.... I had no idea Dad was voiced by anyone important until after I'd played the game. And saw it mentioned on here. Certainly don't recall it being part of the print advertising campaign. (Hmm. Was there any mention of voice actors - outside IMDB and forum discussions - on Skyrim? Seems even more of a waste to spend money on "name" voice actors, and then just not mention it at all.)

Is this in the NPC pvssyr at the start of Oblivion? Or is it in other sources (in-game books, forum discussions, the wiki)? Because the first time I played Oblivion (a year or two after release, and immediately after playing Morrowind for the first time), I don't recall knowing of Kvatch as anything other than "the plot city that's destroyed right away".....

...but yeah. Annoying kids are annoying.

My memory's fuzzy as I haven't played Oblivion in years, but I -think- you can both get dialog about Kvatch having the other arena and there's those little pocket guides that describe each city all over the hotel rooms and the like, and of course Kvatch has a description too.

Bethesda Boss Fights are always anticlimactic. The challenge is getting to the Boss. Dagoth Ur for example. Doing everything that is needed to get his lair is the hard part, once there, 6 hits on the Heart and the MQ is over. Getting Martin to the final battle is the challenge of that MQ, not the final battle in Oblivion.

I for one hate long drawn out protracted button mashing boss fights. Metroid anyone?

Definitely. To echo another forum user, I think Legate Lanius' expression the first time I fought him was probably "Is this ****er serious...?" because I was soooooooooo ill-prepared for an -actual- fight. (though mind you, of course you're free to cheese him by lining up a free sneak attack headshot or Fatman shot or the like; that's simply how the game's designed though and not so much that Lanius himself was particularly weak)

My point with that part, personally, was more about how both Fallout 3 and skyrim literally make it a challenge to actually partake in the battle in any meaningful way. Liberty Prime will win for you whether you lift a finger or not, and the only "difficulty" of Skyrim's final fight is making sure you're not unlucky enough for Alduin to target you of the four targets on the ground. There's "yeah ok this isn't really a boss-ish scenario" endings like with Martin or like with Lanius being cheese-able with certain weaponry, then there's "HERE LET ME DO THAT FOR YOU" which I've only really seen from FO3 and Skyrim, never anyone else.

Let's not forget their ideals on storylines.

In short: Make the player leader as soon as possible without doing anything or having any skill in that particular area.

Issue #1- Well, Sean Bean voiced Martin Septim, and he pretty much hung on for most of the game 'til the end.

Issue #2- That's why you don't see kids in most videogames. It seems people don't know how to make fictional kids not ungodly annoying. I wonder if this says a lot about their opinion of real life kids...

Issue #3- Well, in their defense, something had to be destroyed by the Daedra/Alduin. Would you rather have had it be Anvil/Whiterun?

Issue #4- Yeah, that is a bit annoying, and downright insulting in Skyrim. We're supposed to be the hero of the era, let us fight Alduin alone, and make him CHALLENGING! I want to feel like I'm actually fighting for the survival of the world against a god-dragon not merely smacking around a powerful dragon.

@ Skrim Sniper- Then have the people of other factions/groups still treat the player like scum even when he/she is the head of the other faction/groups. And not have anyone outside the factions/groups know that you, player, are the head of a faction/group.

Well yeah, I agree with that leader-in-guilds part. Since Morrowind, guilds have lost something in regard of sense. You can become arch-mage without casting spells, etc.

What bothers me overall though in all bethesda games is the easy-to-gain rewards. You're swimming in money in all games, oblivion, skyrim, fallout 3, even new vegas that wasn't bethesda's creation.

I was very confused when I figured out how Fallout 3's difficulty system works. The higher difficulties actually increase the amount of XP you get. Which probably defeats the point of a higher difficulty because it makes the game easier.

I almost never play Bethesda games above default difficulty, I use mods to make them more challenging in a way that doesn't turn enemies into hard hitting bullet sponges. Game balance and higher difficulty modes have never been their strong point.

For the Fallout games I use mods that make combat deadlier on both sides by somewhat increasing weapon damage and reducing your health so it equals that of NPCs. I also like to make resources like ammo and health more scarce.

Regarding more XP for bigger difficulties: I think the XP amount might've been a bit too big, but the idea that you gain more experience from tougher enemies is something I agree with. There should be some reward for playing on harder difficulties, and since in Oblivion your reward was a more dynamic XP-boost (took longer to kill, means you need to hit them more, means you'll get more XP), it only made sense that in Fo3 you'd get more experience for kills at higher difficulties.

I found this to be a Skyrim exclusive issus, in Oblivion for example it took me longer and required more work just to get to the Arcane University than to become LEADER of any of the guilds in Skyrim. Actually, this awful pacing and writing extends to the main quest where after an hour of playtime and one dungeon you're basically the omg Dragonbore chosen one of legend.

It's obvious. They can advertise having a big name voice actor, but they don't have to pay him that much when speaks only few lines. It's quite ingenious, really

You can become the master of all guilds though, while being worse than a novice at what that guild teaches and works around.

1 - In Fallout 3, Dad was in the game for quite a awhile. He was just not in the beginning section. If talking about Oblivion I would agree that was a shame but still that role was an important role

2 - The Kids for the most part are Brats but sadly many kids in real life act that way as well. I know I was one about 30 years ago. Matter of fact I was much worse than any of the kids in Skyrim when I was in my prime time of 1 year old to 8 years old.

3 - Towns and Cities gets destroyed when in war and they do not get rebuilt overnight, In many cases they never get rebuilt and become ruins. We see ruins all over the place in the TES games. Kvatch looked like it was a good city but was the first victim of the War.

4 - Boss Fights, I do not care for Boss Fights, I personally do not think they are needed in any TES or even Fallout Game. Those games are much bigger than a Boss Fight. I disagree with Liberty Prime, I found it was well rewarding to him kick some major Enclave ass. His job was to make sure you got to your objective. I kind of find the Rambo, Lone Wolf, super hero BS really lame in these games since they would not survive that long in those worlds.

Those are my opinions and you are free to have your own.

The difference is, TES games reward you based on how you do things, Fallout games reward you on what you do. So, in TES you gain more experience per battle because you are hitting the target more times. I guess they gave an increase in Exp in Fallout to mirror this.

Personally, if I want a more challenging game, I make a gimped character. In either series.

Strangers love to randomly share their life stories with people they've just met on the streets, as well as trusting them with big responsibilities. (All TES and FO games ever)

I'm pretty sure they only make the kids annoying because they think it's funny that the player can't kill them.

Yeah, but that's the thing - when have they ever advertised it? Like I said, I never realized Liam Neeson was in FO3 until I saw it mentioned on a forum. Malcolm McDowell, I at least thought "Hmm, that voice sounds kind of familiar." Patrick Stewart in Oblivion - well, that's a pretty obvious voice. But Sean Bean? Again, never knew about that until a forum mention.

It's certainly not on any of the game boxes (just looked at my original FO3 PC box), I don't remember seeing it in any of the print ads, etc. Why bother hiring Names (rather than skilled voice actors) if you're not going to bother telling anyone?

Killing of big name voice actors confuses me a bit. Who dies immediately that's a big name? Liam Neeson in FO3 did a phenomenal job and hung around for the majority. Not to mention whenever I think of Revelations 21:6 I read it in Liam Neeson's voice. (Things don't get much better than that.)

The kids thing, completely agree. However, you say it 'might' have been successful in New Vegas? Which annoying kids are you referring to? The only kids I actually remember are the ones in Freeside (One is a crier for a store, the other chasing a rat for food. Though the latter is comical, it's certainly plausible and was reasonably entertaining while actually helping immersion.) And the other ones are at the Fort with the Legion. Those two I was actually shocked to see. I played NV after Skyrim and when I saw them training the kids by making them run up and down the stairs I was a bit stunned and thinking "This. This is what I wanted to see in Skyrim. Why are Nordic kids not training to be warriors as soon as they can walk and talk?" So all in all I thought NV did an astounding job with the children.

Last bit. Martin Septim didn't help in the boss fight of Oblivion. Lord Dagon was never the intended boss. He was the face of the enemy where Mankar Camoran was the actual evil. You go toe to toe with the entire family in a standard OB combat scenario in Paradise. That was as much of a boss fight as anything ever could be in an Elder Scrolls game. Nothing to be upset about there, really. People seem to miss that fact, even though Camoran spews line after line of dialogue at the PC whilst enacting plans to unleash Dagon, as if that doesn't make him the root problem.

2. Kids are annoying in real life so that's proper attention to detail on their part.

This seems to be a thing in every RPG I've played. Even games that aren't RPGs do this. At least TES and most Fallout games avoid the, "Come on in. Steal what you want, stranger." thing a lot of RPGs love to keep around.

At least the life stories have to be told in depth if the character trusts you enough in most cases as far as TES and Bethesda(and probably Black Isles) Fallout goes.

Daggerfall actually had kids in it. They were just normal NPCs who could have been mistaken for people who were short, though. Morrowind has a mod that puts children into the game and even in that mod, they are immortal. Not so much the case for Daggerfall...

Personally, I think their weirdest design choice is having a forum so people who don't like their games can sit around and talk about how they don't like them all the time....