Here is the big thing that I am wondering about PvP based on the trailer:

Yes, we saw groups of players moving together to attack a keep and we did see some strategy like the Argonian on horseback leading a group of attackers into an ambush. We also saw an archer and a mage making ranged attacks from above and then trebuchets and melee attackers mving in to take out those ranged threats.

I was envisioning more unit oriented tactics, but it seems like the battle showed a group of people having one on once fights with each other.

Could a wall of archers mow down an onslaught of approaching players?

Could a band of warriors with shields and swords stop an oncoming onslaught of players?

Where's the synergy from banding together as a group?

I mean think of the roman shield wall when people combined their shields to deflect arrows.

Besides buffs and debuffs from other players should their be bonuses for forming squads of similarly equipped players. I would love to run around with a group of players and call ourselves the Black Raiders or the Shields of Riverwood and be a specialized unit.

Basically, I want options and avenues in the game that will reward players being organized and such.

The problem for the archer and mage is that they would have to low damage / second to stop an so large group, they could only inflict damage. yes they might kill a couple but not much more.

Their main strength would be to hit high value targets behind the main force if possible

Do not think an shield wall would give special benefits except presenting a lot of shields who take up atacks, however where is an natural synergy, any single fool coming close will be mobbed.

Because there's no collision detection between players a solid shield wall will not keep the opposing players out of a keep. Tactics and strategy will play a part in keep assault/defense to the degree that a group of players doesn't have to stay in the keep. A flanking force can sally out and assault the attackers from the sides/rear or go after siege engines if they so choose. Putting archers and spell casters on the battlements will certainly be a good thing.

Consider things from a historical perspective. Once all the posturing and unit placement is done and the real fight begins it turns into a 1 on 1 melee where each warrior was fighting to stay alive. With certain exceptions, such as the Roman Phalanx, infantry combat was a zerg rush until the advent of firearms. Braveheart's an awesome example of realistic historical warfare.

That being said, the formation and wise use of special units; such as anti-siege engine or anti-spellcaster units will have their place on the battlefield. If you're looking for small unit action try focusing on the smaller objectives like camps and resource nodes and avoid the massive keep assaults. Personally, I think a small group with an RP-PVP focus like you've mentioned would be really cool to play. It seems to me that ESO PVP is more of a "If you can do it, then you can do it" style rather than something based on buffs to make groups.

Having a group of (partially) equal speced players can be an advantage.

Common tactics would be...

...Melee Assist Train
---> a bunch of tanks that are only able to bring anything down because they time their attacks precisely

...CC and Burst
---> first try to stun/mezz/sleep/stagger/lock down/etc. as many targets as possible so they can't escape then unleash Armageddon on them

...Ambushing and Stealth
---> pretty much the same as a MAT just that all party members are capable of walking unseen

Cool, these are some options I haven't considered and seem like cool strategies that might work if implemented in ESO. I am hesitant to apply other MMO PvP tactics to ESO yet 'til we see what specs and strategies become effective, but yeah I think things like CC, Stealth and tanking will always be effective, only in ESO it will be on a much larger scale.

What I think would be super cool is if like 5 sorcerers could gather together and beginning casting massive fireballs to be hurled at keeps and players and battlements.

It would be easy to implement from a gameplay standpoint. Have a cast timer, when the spell is ready one player in the group is designated as the leader and able to aim where the fireball will land within a certain distance. Then the spell is fired and the casting process begins again or maybe there would be a cool down timer and the group has to break up so you can't just spam fireballs. Obviously a successful hit of a fireball might create major damage or perhaps parts of the battlement would be on fire for like 30 seconds causing damage over time.

Similarly, a group of archers that got together in a group of five, could unleash a volley rapid fire arrows, but it would have a cool down similar to that of the spellcasters.

And here's an idea, say there are 10 warrior lined up together, maybe they can activate an ability that will enable collision detection until 1 or 2 warriors are killed then the collision detection disappears on account of the shield wall being broken.

Mostly this is wishful thinking and obviously if there were threats from grouped characters it would encourage the defense to launch counter attacks and such.

There is the idea of "Black Opts" -- A small team of players goes into another fraction area and cause much damage as their can -- farms, mills, etc or target lone players.

Also, They or a small team attack a fake target Keep and everyone on that fraction will zerg to that Keep to protect it, but in truth, the main force is attacking another keep that no one is around to protect "Bait and switch idea"

It will take a larger team then a black ops team to signal that the keep is under attack. In other words, it will take more then couple of arrows on the front door for a "keep is under attack" sign on the map.

Lets not forget AoE bomb squads. Nasty stuff.

Its pretty difficult I think to show good unit /group tactics and leadership, etc from a video like this. The few times we do see groups running up the ramp to the inner keep and such is about all we got. The rest I think and the whole concept of the video was just to simply show off large scale keep battle.

I have no doubt though that many will stand up and be leaders and try to organize. There will always be those that take the easy way and follow the mindless zerg, but there will be just as many and more that will follow organization and tactics that will be required to take all the keeps and especially well defended ones.

Yeah this isn't an RTS. You've got untrained people making moves.

Ideas in UI tools to help direct the "units" (aka players) for good attacks? Also, "Looking for Group" UI tools type tools for the type of PVP one want to play: RVR, Black Ops, One on One etc

This is a post launch idea:

Arena like in Oblivion

A player sign in a queue to a one on one match and other players can beg on the fight

That way, we have two different End game type PVP to choose from

RvR and 1on1

I dont Think video was "real" PvP..

Players dont run in formation like in the vid

Players dont stand still while hitting on oneanother in PvP like in the video

I'm still hyped as [censored] about TESO and PvP after watching the video.. But I dont thing we saw PvP there

Just my two cents on the subject..

The PvP in the vid looked more "real" then some type of jump strafing junk you see in other games. You don't need to be jumping and twitching around like some FPS junky to fight in PvP. You get in range you attack and use your abilities. Now can argue we didn't see much use of dodge roll mechanics and such but no just simply jumping and twitching around the screen is not needed at all.

...

Okey, in what way does the PvP that you see in other games not look "real"? o.O

the reason people dont need to jump and twitch around is because of the targeting system. if it was equal to a fps game people would be playing like that

Will answer with another question. How does jumping around and twitching make PvP look more real. Assuming of course thats what you think is real PvP because you clearly don't think combatants standing toe to toe fighting is real.

Basically PvP doesn't have to be WoW jump spamming or FPS twitch strafing to be real.

Yes AoE spells will do a lot of damage on enemies who group thigh in a large group, note that this will increase melee damage a lot as everybody in the group can hit the target.

Note that an well organized guild group with good organisation and communication will steamroll any random looking for group bunch of players.

This is probably the most realistic part of PvP.

No, a row of archers will not be able to "mow down" a group of players, nor should they be able to. In an MMO, fun and balanced combat outweighs realism.

A band of melee warriors with shields could probably group together and block with their shields, but that would be dumb because they would get completely focused down by AoE spells.

The synergy of group play comes from buffs, healing, and synergy skills. They've given a number of examples of synergy skills (one player lays down a lightning pool and another player activates it shooting lightning all around.)

The bonus you get from grouping up is that you get healed, you have people watching your back to help you if you get in trouble, you can take keeps, you can take other large groups out, ect.

Organized group play will also always beat unorganized group play. Example: you run into a group of enemy players in a pass. You break your squad up with half taking them head on and the other half goes behind to cut off retreat. Your tanky players go straight in, rooting them and hitting them with CC and debuffs. Your healers focus on them to keep them alive. Your archers and mages stay back and drop AoE spells and volleys of arrows on them.

Grouping will be common. Strategic play will be rewarded.