Are the events in the TES games Dragon Breaks...

Post » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:28 pm

Now I'm no expert in TES lore... I'd say I'm a novice in the subject so apologies for my ignorance... But are the events in the TES games Dragon Breaks... Now my limited understanding of Dragon Breaks are that the timeline splits and every conceived outcome that could happen does happen... All that has occurred and is in fact true even if they are contradictions of themselves... This would explain how the Dragonborn could assassinate the Emperor and also destroy the Dark Brotherhood... Why the Dragonborn is a man, mer or beast race... Could this explain all the events that happened in the TES games... Then everything would become cannon...

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Suzie Dalziel
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Post » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:15 pm

I hope not for Skyrim... since it's really only the beginning of the 4th Era. A large part of the lore and the whole series before this point was third era, so it'd be weird to do something this drastic right off the bat for the 4th.

But maybe it doesn't matter.. I don't know.

In any case, I'm not sure there's anything that caused a dragon break in Skyrim. The World Eater dies (apparently), but I don't think anything unmade time itself.. not afaik.

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jess hughes
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Post » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:22 pm

The only game explicitly with an outcome in a Dragon Break is Daggerfall. It was the one that actually led to the concept of a Dragon Break in the first place, so that all six endings became canon. There isn't any reason to assume that the events in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim happened within a Dragon Break.

Some people theorize that the events in Arena also happened in a Dragon Break, but I'm not a fan of that idea.

EDIT: Some people would also argue that the events in Online happened within a Dragon Break as well, but I personally don't support that idea either.

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Jay Baby
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:56 am

Unlikely, with the exception of Daggerfall (which was confirmed after the fact). It may just be the nature of Elder Scrolls that when an important enough hero arrives, it signals a time of great change and chaos, and the loss of specific information is a natural result from that time period.

Which, in hindsight, should've made us crap our pants when four of 'em appeared within a decade of each other.
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Post » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:19 pm

Daggerfall was a Dragon Break. Skyrim was the aftermath of a prior Dragon Break.

Arena, Morrowind, and Oblivion were not Dragon Breaks, just various crisis. Specifically - Save the Empire, Stop an evil god from taking over a small Island, and stop an evil god from taking over the world.

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josh evans
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:05 am

Actually, Dagoth-Ur would've taken over Tamriel eventually, IIRC. It's just that he'd have to fight Dagon for it, since his plan would take a while.

... is it wrong that I now want to see Dagoth-Ur and Mehrunes Dagon fight it out in a pay-per-view cage match?
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Post » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:55 pm

Yeah, but it's still a Voldemort situation.

Sure, he could totally take over the world...but he fails to conquer one High School.

Not saying Dagoth Ur wasn't a compelling villain, but when you step back his actual accomplishments amount to "Conquered a mountain, managed to be a minor nuisance to the local population, killed by a roaming vagabond".

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Scott Clemmons
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Post » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:26 pm

You're greatly understating everything he accomplished. He drove away the three gods of the Tribunal, raised an army that the Tribunal and their followers could not destroy and could barely contain, stole Keening and Sunder, and was in the process of building a second Numidium. He was making steady progress every step of the way, and it took a hero of prophecy to finally defeat him.
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Hayley Bristow
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:35 am

Yep, that's why I love Dagoth Ur. Also he is the most interesting antagonist in the last three games.

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Nick Jase Mason
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:49 am

Easy to do, considering said gods were vain and childish, only capable of working together for the briefest periods of time.

They'd had them "barely contained" for over a thousand years. Sure, Corpus creatures were becoming more and more of a problem as of late, but that could have more to do with the fact Vvardenfell had been recently open to colonization and thus more chance to infect sapient creatures as opposed to any actual breech in containment.

Technically, he didn't steal them. Almalexia and Sotha Sil left them behind. Ur just called dibs.

That I will grant you. I considered a gib remark about how it wasn't finished yet, but who knows how long it takes to create a artificial god.

If by "hero of prophecy" you mean a wastrel criminal who happened to pass the entrance exam established by a Daedra for a convoluted revenge plot.

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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:51 am

lol.. i'm still going to go with prophecy with that one. It's Azura..kind of her thing.

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Robyn Howlett
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:05 am

It wasn't until like 20 years before morrowind takes place that dagoth ur started to become barely contained. For the last thousand years the tribunal went on annual raids and killed dagoth ur over and over, but we're never able to gain access to the heart chamber.

And then 10 years before morrowind takes place, dagoth ur beats and captures almalexia and Sotha Sil , along with sunder and keening. Which is quite a feat because the tribunal were strong enough to beat and drive back mehrunes Dagon.

It was only in those last years when the tribunal were actually losing and why vivec seeks out the nerevarine to aid him in the fight.

If dagoth ur was strong enough to beat the other tribunal, then had the aid of his immortal ash vampires and recreated a second numidium, there's nothing that could stop him from taking the world.

Tiber septim was able to take the world just with numidium and no heart of lorkhan or God powers. Dagoth ur had God powers that matched or beat most Daedra, and immortal servants as well as zealous dreamers for foot soldiers along with his ascended sleepers.

Plus his next plan was to send the blight storms across the world before he invaded.

And judging by the state of his numidium, it was pretty close to being done .
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Valerie Marie
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:23 am

Yet they were powerful enough to defeat Daedric Princes.

No they didn't. Dagoth Ur awoke in 2E882, meaning he had been active for about 441 years as of TES III. The Tribunal's recent failure to contain him was not due to colonization by outsiders, but more likely due to the Sixth House establishing a route underneath the Ghostfence through Kogoruhn, which they reoccupied in 4E400. In addition, the Ghostfence does nothing to stem the Curse-of-Dreams, nor does the presence of outsider races exasperate it (since it only affects Dunmer).

3E 417: Almalexia and Sotha Sil lose the artifacts Keening and Sunder to Dagoth Odros and Vemyn. Vivec rescues Almalexia and Sotha Sil, but failing to recover Keening and Sunder, the Tribunal retreat from Red Mountain in disorder. Surviving Buoyant Armiger companions know the Tribunal was forced to retreat, but do not know how serious a reversal the Tribunal has suffered. The Three Tribunes return to their respective capitals and continue to perform their ritual functions. The Tribunes continue to grow weaker without access to the Heart, and because of resources required to support the Ghostfence. The inner circle of the Temple priesthood has begun to suspect the Tribunes have suffered seriously from wounds and demoralization in the wake of reverses at Red Mountain, but do not recognize the scale of the problem.

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Kelly James
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:36 am

I'd say the only game that is during a dragonbreak is ESO, Daggerfall ends with a dragonbreak but all the others are not dragonbreaks.

As for stuff like the civil war or the dark brotherhood well.

1. the race of the player character of each major game (well, with the exception of Arena) is never given an official race, gender or appearance in anyway.
2. The Empire isn't defeated if the Stormcloaks take over Skyrim nor is there anything to consider that the Empire recognizes it's independence. The Empire is building a force behind Pale Pass and given the people that Ulfric puts on the thrones of the Holds I wouldn't be surprised if there are open revolts against Ulfric's forces. The most likely explanation is the Empire sends in a new force into Skyrim while Ulfric's forces struggle with discontent of the citizens and the Forsworn who would take advantage of the chaos and could rally more Reachmen behind their banner when the Silver-bloods become more like tyrants when they gain official power over Markarth and the Reach.
3. Dark Brotherhood ends up destroyed anyway in the questline and no matter what choice you pick Babette, Cicero and the Night Mother still survive the destruction of the Falkreath branch and Cicero still knows the password to the door in Dawnstar.

Tbh Dagoth Ur probably would've won and he would've had a more powerful force given his whole way of recruiting people was to invade their dreams, join them with Ur's own consciousness through the power of the heart, and shared the benefits of the heart with his followers. Of course not all Dunmer had to be brainwashed, some joined up with the Sixth House freely because they agreed with the anti-imperial and xenophobic principles Dagoth Ur championed.

Dagoth Ur would've totally beaten the Mythic Dawn and Mehrunes Dagon pretty quickly too due to the fact Dagoth Ur was planning to finish Big Stompy #2
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Louise Andrew
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:03 am

But that's only if Akulakhan was completed in time to be useful against Mehrunes Dagon. While there's no doubt it was close to completion, I don't think we know what kind of timetable he was on. I'd imagine the five years between Morrowind and Oblivion would be cutting it worringly close for Dagoth; Alulakhan would need to be ready before Mehrunes arrived in the Imperial City.

And, of course, this assumes that using the Heart with Alulakhan wouldn't create a Dragon Break in itself. If it does, I don't think we'd be able to determine what the outcome would or could be, since the Break would probably affect all areas that are touched by Blight Storms. Which could very well be a large part of Tamriel by then.

And, of course, the Mythic Dawn's greatest strength is secrecy: so long as they could set up the conditions for an oblivion gate to manifest, numbers in battle didn't really matter. I'd imagine that the Legion could've taken care of them if the Mythic Dawn simply waged open war.
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:55 am

But could Mehrunes Dagon's forces open stable Oblivion gates with Red Tower active?

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Kat Stewart
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:13 am

I'd say yes, considering how widespread the Crisis was. Again, five-year span between Morrowind and Oblivion. The Mythic Dawn had to have been planning the whole thing for a while, considering they more-or-less managed to open up gates all over Tamriel. That kind of continent-spanning network without drawing attention to itself can take decades under current technology, let alone what's available in 3e428.

Considering that the main issue is that the Dragonfires needed to be extinguished to allow the gates to pop in the first place, and that Crystal-Like-Law was still active until it got invaded during the Crisis as well as Snow Throat, I don't think Red Mountain, active or not, would've played much of a role in the gates.

Now, if active, Dagoth could've probably tried to stop the gates from appearing wherever he had influence, due to his access to the Heart of Lorkhan, but we're now crossing into really far-off speculation territory.
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Heather Kush
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:37 am

The Nu-Mantia Intercept suggests that the deactivation of Red Tower was a part of those plans.

The fall of Red Tower should not be seen as the suave conquest of Cyrodiil's agencies, for we have been tricked again by the Dagonites. Though through long eras the chimerical landgods have subverted Divine rule, their protection of the First Stone should have remained as it was: the ironic protection of our enemies to our Enemy.

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Big Homie
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