I don't know if this has been posted before, I skimmed the posts, but let me clarify TF2's Steam Workshop. What goes on there is nothing like what the modding community does with Bethesda games.

Users upload their creations to be considered by Valve for being put in TF2. It is NOT a website for mods. There are other third party websites for skin and model replacers. Money ONLY comes in to play if the creations are accepted by Valve and officially put into the game as release content in a free patch. They are not accepted to be put on Steam Workshop. Anything can be put on Steam Workshop (within reason. It is moderated). The creators get a percentage from the money made via the Mann Co store which sells official and officially accepted community made items. Let me rephrase, the items that are accepted are put in to the game as 100% official content. This means Valve is not charging for mods, it's charging for weapons and hats that are part of the game's base content. The TF2 development team is very small. Only about 4 people or so. The vast majority of the new items that are added to the game are community made, and Steam Workshop was just a way to streamline the process.

There is a HUGE difference between that and the Bethesda Games modding community. It's HIGHLY reasonable to assume that a different overall system will be used, but it will still run through Steam Workshop.

EDIT: I also feel I should point out that all community made items in TF2 are added to the drop and crafting systems as well. You don't have to pay to get them. A large number of people don't.

They are releasing the CK freely. They simply haven't finished adding the option to upload your mods to Steam, from the sound of things. Do you want them to release a non-steam copy now? They're obviously not going to do that unless they have to, given the extra testing etc. associated with upkeeping two separate programs, even if they share a lot of code.

Also "This is about money". Yes it is about money. Bethesda have figured out a way to open up their modding community to more people, easier- this means more sales from people attracted by the mods, it means double sales from people with console copies buying PC copies to mod (that already happens to an extent now). Valve benefit from the increased sales because they're the market leader in PC digital distro, and they also get an incredible flagship 3rd party for their Steam Workshop service, which in turn will attract other companies to use it, which means more widespread modding, which means a greater proportion of game sales are likely to be on PC, which again benefits them. You don't have to resort to conspiracy theories and paranoia to figure out the money angle.

Why would Bethesda release their DLC through the Workshop which is being provided for the modders? Why wouldn't they release it on the Steam store like they, and every other Steam partner, has been since the store opened?

The only thing I appreciated of Steam is that I am Italian, I bought the Italian version and I didn't want to play Skyrim in my language just to have later released patches, ludicrous translations (like in Oblivion) or limited mod selection...I was able to have my English version with the very same license.

But a stand-alone international version would have been much more appreciated than taking 3-4 hours to download a game I own from Internet!

I'm talking about custom resources. That may be true for ESP/ESM files because they are created with the CK, but if I would create a custom model from scratch, there's no way at all Bethesda could claim that and sell it without my approval.



I was replying to the case of Bethesda selling our mods. In you first case selling the mod would be optional, the author can choose not to do so.

In your second case, I can simply choose to not upload the mod to the Workshop. Unless they would make it so that nothing created in the CK could be stored on your harddrive anymore, but that's just undoable with today's still crappy internet connections compared to the size mods can get.

Anything a company does is profit driven. They don't just go out of the way and spend months setting something up just to provide a better experience for the end user with no monetary value planned. Obviously there is a profit to be made here, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to go through all this extra work for something that already functions fine.

I also don't think it's just to get more PC sales (although that is certainly part of it), most PC players mod anyways/know mods exist. They might not do anything now, but it could be something they start evolving later on.

I for one wholeheartedly support this. Primarily because of the lulz generated by the sheer spazstorm that resulted.

I'm sure they're going to have standards for what they allow to be uploaded (i.e. no nudity, no child killing, certainly no copyrighted/pirated assets, etc.), which means a review and screening process prior to mods being made available for download. They'd be insane to just allow their site to be flooded with unscreened content - the potential for scumbags to spread malicious code alone would see to that.

And I just can't imagine they'd force people who feel their work isn't ready to be released to the public to do so.

Duh, but that doesn't imply at all that this Workshop itself will be used to make money.

Supporting the modding community is profitable in itself. People love mods, so people will love Bethesda and their games more if they advertise/support mods, which means they will sell more future DLC's and games. They are just making themselves popular with this move.


+1

Saying that, Valve did hire a Unreal Tournament mod team to produce a full game based on their Alien Swarm mod, then gave that game to everyone on Steam for free. You can make a profit by doing good things and getting customer loyalty, amazingly capitalism doesn't have to resemble a writhing pit of sociopaths shivving each other for their pocket change.

There is nothing 'conspiracy' about it, it IS the way the gaming market is heading. I am speculating and concerned that we are headed in that direction too and I believe it is the case. As do others in this thread. Bethesda have a platform from which they could sell mods, it is hardly 'conspiracy' to consider the possiblity that it may turn this way...especially in light of the fact that other gaming companies have taken to selling mods recently.


Thank you! You put it far better then I could.


Then you had best get your lawyer out because the Eula claims ownership of all content put itno the game with the CK and you agree to that when you accept the Terms of Use on installing the CK.
but like I said, this has been the debate for years with no actual legal resolution to it. Only way to find out is to get your lawyer out if Beth did one day sell your mod.

Yeah, but the Italian version and the others had full voice acting. Adding an international version with voice acting would have required either only English with subs, or multiple disks to contain the voice files for all released languages. I understand why that would be upsetting to have to install a game you have a physical copy of from online, but your choosing to have it in English is what required the download and not the purchasing of the game. Many consider the fact that they are voice acted in their own language a benefit and if you do not see it that way then that's your own opinion.

Personally, I approve of the Steam connectivity with mods, because of two things:

- It'll make my mod-acquiring experience a lot cleaner and easier

- I can avoid the violently creepy / disturbing / OMGMAHsixEEWAIFI crap that certain community sites are positively riddled with, tainting the product and its community.

I mean, think about it: one of the first mods that was uploaded to a certain community mod site was Naked / Less Dirt female skins. Clearly, this is a mod community that has to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into respectability.

Bethesda already supports mods; they talk about it all the time, hire people who do amazing mods, and release their tools to create mods. This means nothing to the PS3/360 crowd because they can't get mods and they are the biggest crowd (the ones Bethesda is going to focus on) so it won't raise Bethesdas popularity in their eyes.



There are exceptions to everything. Unfortunately giving stuff away for free is not the norm and for a major company like Bethesda I can almost guarantee that won't happen. They accept money from Microsoft to release DLC for them first. Does that sound like a company that is profit driven or community driven? They are in the business to make money, not release stuff for free.

To my understanding, a this will allow the mods to be installed automatically, so it's good for me since I'm terrible with mod instillation. I realize this won't work with stuff that requires a specific load order (I think, since that's what everyone is saying), but I can't imagine that something as big as OOO coming around for some time.

You are contradicting yourself immensely there.

First you say Bethesda already supports/advertises mods as a selling point for their games (which are only on PC), and then you try to invalidate my argument by implying that Bethesda doesn't care about advertising mods as a selling point for their games because they focus on the console crowd who don't have mods.

So? If it provides a better experience for the consumer it is win-win. You make it sound like making money means you have only evil intentions to rip off the customer as much as possible. Isn't the point of making something you sell be as good as possible so people buy it and stick with you? It's a win-win thing. It's not like you lose because they provide you more services in one place. If you feel like you lose, you vote with your wallet and not buy from them anymore. Then they lose, too.


Sorry it took you 3-4 hours to download a game you have a license to play. That is not Steam's fault, however, that your internet connection is not fast enough to download it any faster. If you had a slow harddrive or a slow DVD drive, the game would take a long time to install from a disc, as well.

While I understand some people do not like the Steam integration, there will never be a 100% consensus on anything relating to DRM and content delivery. I appreciated the game being a Steamworks title because that meant I could buy it retail and have to on my shelf, but use Steam in the future to install the game whenever I wanted on whatever computer I would be using at any point in time.

For everyone looking for how Valve and Bethesda benefit from this: Good will, being good to your community means they'll be more likely to come back for your next game. Valve has a huge loyal following for a reason, when they [censored] up they over-apologize, when they make something they make it for the community, not the beancounters, they give out constant sales (which actually benefit the developers/publishers behind the games on sale too!) and the head of the company is more than a little famous in the gaming world. Bethesda is looking for some that goodness by making use of an easy to use, open platform for distributing mods. (Seriously, I can look at mods while I'm out and using my phone/laptop, choose some good ones, and then play them right when I get back to my desktop? Kick. Ass.)

tl;dr: The profit they're digging for is long term, by doing good things for the community now.

Also: Note that TF2's Steam Workshop is not Skyrim's Steam Workshop, for instance, the flagging system is nonexistent for TF2 because it doesn't make sense for an MP game.

I'm sorry for the confusion. I was replying to your statement that this move will advertise mods for the PC users MORE, making Bethesda more popular. I was trying to say that this will not make Betheada more popular to most people because PC users already know about mods and console users know they can't get mods.

I am using that in the context of the possibility of mods being sold in the future and why the steam mod thing has been implemented in the first place. Not about making money ingeneral.

Maybe and maybe not. If this move raises the profile of modding and the modding community, to where Bethesda can point at the popularity of mods for the PC as a strong selling point (along with some marketing research among console owners), then perhaps they'll be able to negotiate with Sony and Microsoft to allow at least a limited number of mods that can be validated to work properly on the consoles to be used. They may never have the huge variety of mods that are available to PC users, but they'd have something, which is a heck of lot more than what they get now.

Steam's CDN is notoriously slow. I can obtain Skyrim from other source in about 10 minutes versus 5 hours from Steam. It's the whole reason I pre-ordered a physical copy... I didn't want to have to deal with Steam. But then it's like NOPE SCREW YOU YOU GET TO USE THE [censored] STEAM CDN TOO.

So smaller mods will be for free, but the 'good stuff', we will have to pay for.
They will just say it's theirs because it is created with their CK and used in
their game, or they will will offer the creator(s) a few breadcrumbs to buy it
from them and then resell it to, us? Who doesn't want to make money, so
the creator(s) will say, sure. Getting a little (Steam release), is better than
getting nothing (Nexus release).

So it's not your problem that you can't say no to a couple of bucks, its Bethesda's?

(Also I get equal speeds from Steam and P2P :/)

I just gave an example of a not too far fetched scenario that might be in the making, and the consequences thereof.

I hope I am dead wrong, but I seriously believe that all of you who think that Bethesda does this out of the goodness
of their hearts to help out the community - or, to simply up their standing with us, i.e. raise their goodwill, are fooling
yourself big time. I think there is going to be money involved in this one way or the other, and we are the ones who's
going to provide it.

You want the little mod that makes your pony go 10% faster, sure here, it's free!
You want the the Skyrim equivalent of FWE, sure here, that's .