Hello,

Please bear with me while I try to explain as well as I can.

Posted this problem a few days ago. Seemed like a minor problem at first, may still be. After doing some digging around and some testing, I realized this is a problem that's been around for several years now, since Morrowind.

Granted, this may or may not have anything to do with Bethesda as a developer. I really don't know enough to judge.

I do know however that some people out there are talented enough to be able to answer this.

The apostrophe ' key and opening bracket [ key don't work in Bethesda games.

I know, I know. Minor problem, right?

Here's the weird thing.

The keys are broken for the past three Elder Scrolls games, and both recent Fallout games.

Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout, New Vegas.

The ' key inputs :
The [ key inputs @

In Skyrim, ' doesn't even register, and the [ key inputs ]

I believe the keys work for most people, but not all. I've been able to use those keys on past keyboards / computers.

I thought it might be our computers at home. Dell computers, both unable to use the keys. Switching keyboards doesn't work.

Language setting is English (US).

Started up some different games.

Able to use both keys in every other game (Neverwinter Nights 2, WoW, Civilization, etc. Literally every other game has working ' and [ keys), but anything from Bethesda the keys are unfortunately borked.

I've already posted this in the Unofficial Bug thread, but that was a week or so ago, before I realized this was more than a Skyrim problem.

Looking through past Elder Scrolls threads, other people have been experiencing this as well.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1165821-help-me-name-my-final-enchanted-imperial-weapon/page__p__17162949__hl__apostrophe__fromsearch__1#entry17162949
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1309961-how-can-i-put-apostrophe-during-enchantment-rename/page__p__19705994__hl__apostrophe__fromsearch__1#entry19705994
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1277163-weird-naming-issue-can-use-an-apostrophe-on-one-computer-not-on-another/page__p__19616391__hl__apostrophe__fromsearch__1#entry19616391

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1303336-issue-w-keyboard/page__p__19616876__hl__apostrophe__fromsearch__1#entry19616876

Does anyone have any idea what's going on?

It's something with the engine that only affects specific computers, right? But nothing wrong with the computers themselves, since those two keys work in other programs. That's about as much as I can understand.

Would anyone be able to provide a deeper explanation so we could all understand it better?

And.. would Bethesda be able to patch this, or fix it? Like I said, this seems to have been around for almost ten years now.

Thank you in advance.

Could be that they are using those "key-codes" internally... and allowing them in the game, would break the game some-how. So they just disabled them...

EG... Same reason ' and " and / and \ and % can be disabled on web-games. Due to being quote-breaking, or database breaking, or reserved for special use in HTML or URL's...

Bethesda games use a data-base as the core of the game. SO lots of QUOTES have to be "escaped" or replaced with special characters. Like how the web does 20% for SPACE in a URL. Or Javascript uses \" or \' to diaplay a quote in quoted strings. Perhaps the [ bracket breaks the actual [code] by inserting [[code] or [\[code], not escaping correctly. Thus, a technical issue.

If not that... than perhaps just due to multi-lingual support. Though you use US, those keys on another keyboard may be non-existant or game-breaking. SO they disable it for all keyboards. Then again, those keys may not have correct key-codes that are valid in ISO standards.

I know "~" is also on the ` key... which is a command in the game to open the console. Thus, game-breaking potentially, if SHIFT is not always detected correctly, which it is not. Shift likes to toggle and lock, without shift-lock.

Hello,

Thank you for the reply.

I think I understand what you're saying. Basically Bethesda may have disabled those specific keys ( ' and [ ) because of coding, or mis-coding.

This only affects some people though, unless I'm mistaken. Wouldn't those keys be disabled for all players?

Are all PC (US) users unable to use the quote ' and opening bracket [ keys?

I'm not sure if I'm missing something here or not but I have [ bound to quicksave and it works for me. I never use ' so I haven't tried that though.

Hello,

Thanks for replying.

Yes, binding actions directly to the keys themselves works. Just that the actual characters aren't being inputed, but the key presses are.

I can bind anything to the ' and [ keys (e.g. Forward, Backward, etc) and they'll work.

Even works for people who aren't able to input ' and [ in the game.

For people who experience the problem however, ' shows up as 0x91 and [ shows up as 0x92 in the column where it would typically show ' and [ for other users.

So.. The key presses work, but not the keystrokes.

That sounds more like just a visual issue that shouldn't negatively affect anything gameplay wise. I have several hex code listings in my keybinds but they have never caused me any issues.

If it is just a visual issue I'm curious as to how this such a concern? I tend to look at my custom keybindings as if they were made by Ronco..."Set it and forget it."

Oh, I don't mind what the keybinds look like in the menu. I don't have any problems with keybinds either.

Main concern though is that the apostrophe ' and bracket [ keystrokes are unusable when you name a character or rename an enchanted item.

Confusing since only some people are affected by this.

Even more perplexing that for the people who are, it affects all of Bethesda's games.

I guess that I'm just confused and don't really understand what it is that you're trying to express. I'm sorry for that.

So essentially you want to rename and item or a character with a name that includes the ' or [ keys?

I'm thinking that my issue with understanding this is that I just don't have any issues with these keys so I'm just trying to wrap my head around exactly what it is that you see as the problem.

Ive honestly never tried to use ' or ][ lol. Im going to check now because Im curious.

No problem at all, no need to be sorry. Have to admit my OP was a bit convoluted.

Basically, yes.

ESGamer's Sword of Mediocrity as opposed to Mediocre Sword of ESGamer.

The two keys don't work correctly for some people in Bethesda's games, but do for others.

I've had the keys work myself with Bethesda games on some older, broken down computers (which I don't have anymore).

Just trying to figure out why this is, and if it's fixable.

Best of luck to you.

Ok, that's for understanding my ignorance...I'm also working on my first cup of coffee so I'm sure that has something to do with it.

I just checked in game and everything seems to be working correctly for me. The keys show up correctly in the keybindings list (as keys not hex codes) and both keys work for renaming an enchanted item ... [ BioFringe's Sword of Death ]

I'm using an actual controlmap.txt file for keybinds that might actually make the difference. It's not a mod but the actual file included in one of the games archives. If you're not using a controlmap.txt file I'd suggest trying that to see if it fixes your issues.

EDIT: I also looked into 0x91 and 0x92 and couldn't find those on any known hex codes lists...I'm showing 0x28 for ' and 0x1a for [

Coffee sounds good right about now.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Where would I find controlmap.txt? I'm kind of computer illiterate.

There's a ControlMap_Custom inside the Skyrim directory but opening it displays weird symbols.

Yeh those keys work fine for me. Idk, I know I did used to have problems with any keyboards that use that bloody "F-Lock" crap and will never ever buy another one. Other than that well... if you know someone else who has Skyrim you could try bringing your keyboard over there and seeing if it works.

@ OP

The code of the game just doesnt have these keys "registered" for mapping. Probably because these symbols are reserved for other purposes in the code, in other words these symbols might be used as reading caracters inside the code.

Edit:

Nevermind I see u only got the problem so iam wrong

I have a feeling it has something to do with the computer itself, though I'm not sure what.

I've tried an HP keyboard, a Dell keyboard, and two other generic keyboards - All have the same problem.

Here's a copy of my http://home.comcast.net/~dreadful/skyrim/controlmap.txt file.

You can download it here: http://home.comcast.net/~dreadful/skyrim/controlmap.zip and place it in C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Interface\Controls\PC

Edit the hex codes to your liking using the following list: http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=592

I have included a cheat-sheet in excel format that shows the default, my custom, and hex codes for easy reference (I'll upload in doc format if need be).

Best of luck and please let me know how this pans out for you.

Wow, thank you very much.

I'm going to try it now.

Controlmap.txt didn't work unfortunately.

For some reason, the keybindings were crossed, and weren't changeable.

e.g. 0x1a [ was binded as Quicksave.

However, [ did not work.

What did work was pressing ], that activated Quicksave for me.

So somehow, for whatever reason, even with Controlmap.txt, the game thinks ] on my keyboard is [.

I've cleared the keybindings as well, using what I had originally (none of the keybinds worked for me, except for ]).

Thank you for trying though.

Is anyone else experiencing the same thing? I know it's only the minority.

"TLDR" - Game not recognizing ' and [ keystrokes.

For Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout, and New Vegas.

Received your PM...thanks for the update.

Sorry that didn't work for you but there are a couple more things you could try:

1. Delete the ControlMap_Custom file that you mentioned earlier (if you hadn't already).
2. Restart the game, load a save, go to your keybindings and select Default (this will guarantee that the custom commands in the controlmap.txt file are actually loaded into the game).

Other than that this really seems like an issue with your system for some odd reason (you might want to check out your operating systems keyboard configuration). This is the first that I've ever heard of anyone having this issue and as others have attested to the game works fine in this regard for others. I really do hope that you get this resolved but that's about all I can offer in regards to potential fixes. I'll continue to monitor this thread in case there's a breakthrough or in the event that I can think of anything else.

Thanks for the help.

Resetting the controls to default did load the controlmap.txt keybinds correctly.

The game still didn't read ' and [ though.

Changed the Forward keybind to 0x28 (apostrophe).

Nothing. Game won't recognize it.

Just for S&G, I changed the Forward keybind (0x48 - Num8) to 0x92 (what the game reads as ') and it worked. Moved forward.

So.. still not exactly sure what's going on.

I'll try to contact Dell support to see if they have any idea, but I don't think it'll help any (no fault of theirs).

So very odd indeed. I feel your pain because I'm a keybinding junkie and when the controls of a game don't work as I expect them (or would like them to) I get very frustrated.

If you don't mind trying a 3rd party application I can completely vouch for http://www.autohotkey.com/ as I've been using it since it was first release back in 2003 without a single problem. I use it for Skyrim as well even with the custom controlmap.txt file. It's easy to use and only uses up an extremely tiny amount of system resources (you'd never notice it running).

At any rate, if you want to give it a shot simply download and install then create the following script as a test (make sure to save and run the script after creating it...some people forget the basics):

#NoEnv
#IfWinActive ahk_class Skyrim
SendMode Input
SetWorkingDir %A_ScriptDir%

'::A
[::B

NOTE: Change A & B to the keys bound to the actions that you want ' and [ to work for. Make sure that neither of those keys (' and [) are bound what-so-ever as they should be excluded from any bindings in order to work properly for this test).

Load the script and load a save...rebind the A & B action via the menu in-game and see if it worked...if it did then the A & B buttons will invoke the bound actions AND the ' & [ keys will also do the same.

EXAMPLE: If you bind QuickSave to X in-game and you want the [ to perform a Quicksave then change B in the AHK script to X...make sure X is bound to QuickSave in-game and that [ is not bound to anything.

If this works for you then create a shortcut to the Skyrim script that you created and just make sure to use that shortcut before every Skyrim play session...literally takes 1 extra seconds. You could even make a batch file that would run the AHK script first then TESV.exe second so that you could continue using just 1 shortcut to achieve everything you want).

It really is odd.

I would bet money that the people in these two threads are having the same problem.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1309961-how-can-i-put-apostrophe-during-enchantment-rename/page__p__19705994__hl__apostrophe__fromsearch__1#entry19705994

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1165821-help-me-name-my-final-enchanted-imperial-weapon/page__p__17162949__hl__apostrophe__fromsearch__1#entry17162949


I downloaded AutoHotKey, and it works well, definitely. I followed your script and keymapped X to Quicksave after I changed '::X.

Both ' and X allowed me to Quicksave, so it worked like you said. When I tried to use ' in a naming field, it inputed X, which was expected.

So I tried to switch it around this time to see if it would input ' if I pressed X after I changed it to X::'

Nothing.

It let me Quicksave with X and ', but no actual character input.


I contacted Dell Support just now as well, just to see if they've had anything similar happen with their brand of computers, and.. well, because I'm out of leads. They basically said it was a software issue, and I'm inclined to believe them. For whatever reason, I'm one of the few who owns two computers that both exhibit this glitch. Maybe Bethesda will patch it someday - I should also be able to use the Construction Set to rename items before importing them into the game.

In the meantime though, hoping others who have this glitch notice this thread and have some ideas about why it only affects the minority.

Looking back on the previous Bethesda games I just started up, the keyboard layout might be the problem.

Since ] inputs [ in Skyrim, and ' inputs : in Morrowind, it's almost like the keys are spaced over by one.

Going to see if there's different layouts I can try.

After much digging around, I was able to find a thread dating back to 2007 that addresses this issue.

Apparently it's not limited to Skyrim, but is an issue with a Microsoft Keyboard driver.

Kudos to the poster dgdgagdae for finding a resolution to this issue, wherever he/she may be.


Taken from http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102166

This seems to be a very elusive beast of a problem. Doing searches, it affects several different programs including Everquest, Flash games, StarCraft, etc.

Thanks to BioFringe and others that have tried to help.

Is there a way to sticky the solution to this in case people who are experiencing this aren't able to come across this thread?