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Ah, it's good to have other, more knowledgable people do research and work for the rest of us lol.

well now it is begining to seem to me like there about 60 different sithis's, that seem to range from some all consuming void, to the basic force of the creation of the entire universe. It is constantly more and more obvious that we can look at the lore of oblivion only for what it is, Lore, stuff writen down by people, so it is not actualy truth as almost ever piece of lore contridicts a different piece.

Ever tried reading any given scientific article?

Only politicians can make the world a simple place.

But...what if they forgot the CHIM terms papers at home?

A politician never forgets...

Or doing any research using something other than Wikipedia or a textbook?

You're going to find contradictions in whatever you read, the key is to look for consistencies and account for the bias that inevitably exists. The PGE is an admittedly inaccurate and biased piece of work, but that doesn't mean it's useless. If you were to read contemporary accounts of the American Revolution by colonists on one side and London townspeople on the other, they are obviously going to contradict one another on many issues. Just like when reading the different creation myths, they were witnessed and interpreted with differing viewpoints, and so they aren't going to agree on everything. However, when both sides describe the same event, regardless of how they react to it, it's a good bet that it did indeed happen. It's up to you how you interpret it.

This is about Sithis not real-world political bias.

And I was simply saying that contradictory accounts of Sithis' nature are no reason to discount its validity or existence.

Anyway, you're right, so I'll just leave it at that.

i promise, i have read just about every bit of information there is on sithis, from numerous DB accounts (usualy entires non-factual) to his appearance in the monomyth, which is probably the most factual account, or as factual as any myth of course. The problem is, unlike somthing like the american revolution, there is not alot of information about sithis, he had one book and his appearances in other texts tends to range from a sentence to a paragraph, and that information often shares nothing in common

There are commonalities. The ones related to the creation myths and metaphysics do at least. The ones with the recent DB tracks seem to be they're confused.

well i do guess that the DB got a few things right, but not many, they seem to reguard sithis as an embodyment of chaos, and change like he is regarded as in the monomyth. And most of the higher ranking members do not seem to regard him as a sentient deity either, but stuff gets a little scetch from then on.

Well, I'm saying they're more confused because it seems they're like the kiddies on a forum who start praising people over deep things they don't understand. When it comes to the Monomyth, I pretty much stated what it was in the myths, it's limitation in that it allows Anuiel to know it's different forms by shaping it with "not this and not that." But, it's pretty chaotic and dangrous. It'll sunder and destroy you.

I always thought Sithis was entropy, and the Dark Brotherhood worshipped entropy, and that the Sithis who answers prayers was simply an echo of their belief or something...

Well, regardless of what Sithis is or isn't, I would say that the great majority of the Dark Brotherhood "worshipped" Sithis as part of the emperor's new clothes effect. The Dark Brotherhood worships Sithis. I'm in the Dark Brotherhood. I worship Sithis. Or perhaps it's more of a tongue-in-cheek joke between the upper-eschelon, like Scientology.

"Yeah, we kill for Sithis, not our own sick pleasure. Hail Sithis, yeah! You want who killed? 300 Drakes, cold and in my hand now. For Sithis."

Also, the DB wouldn't be the first cult to steal the identity of one idea and use that identity for their own. LaVey's Satanism essentially does this, by stealing the identity of the entity Satan, and applying that identity to a belief system that can be identified with the personality of the entity Satan, but in reality has nothing at all to do with Satan. Why? Cuz it sound cool, and it's mysterious.

Honestly though, I thought the DB questline in Oblivion was one of the few shining points, whether it contributed to lore or not. Especially if the Sithis thing was more a joke/coverup for the fact that the DB is really just about the joys of Murder and Money. If you're gonna be evil, be evil for yourself, not for someone else. As a non-theist, even in my role-playing, this concept appeals to me far more than serving, well, whatever it is that Sithis is or isn't.

As is to dreaming, looking at your eyelids and yet your mind closing and un closing itself to refresh.

"LaVey's Satanism essentially does this, by stealing the identity of the entity Satan, and applying that identity to a belief system that can be identified with the personality of the entity Satan, but in reality has nothing at all to do with Satan. Why? Cuz it sound cool, and it's mysterious."

By the way, to anyone who hasn't, I would recommend reading a bit from the website of the church of satan, It really is a very interesting world view.

If Sithis does not exist, or is nothing,
what then is the Wrath of Sithis, since that definitly is something?

http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/summon_rufio.shtml

An echo of the Dark Brotherhood's worship of Sithis? Or as Proweler said, an angry soul that they send at you? Or it could just be an extremely vivid nightmare from them...

Or maybe what the CS tells you it is, a few simple ghosts?

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist".

--keyser soze

[censored]. They're the Thieves Guild, not the Devil. It was a BS retcon that just pushed Nirn farther towards Narnia.

:facepalm:

Actually, I don't think so. That altar wasn't in the game proper, but was, rather, one of the "official" DLCs. While some of them complete an interesting area of the setting (the Orrery springs to mind), others, such as the "alter for evil people" were little more than purchasable cheat codes with flavoring. It wasn't in the original game, it wasn't included in GOTY. As such, I consider it to be no more "canon" than a player-made expansion.

As for me, I draw the relationship between the Dark Brotherhood and Sithis from the book bearing his name: Sithis. In the beginning, Sithis shattered the nothing, ideas came to be, enjoyed a finite existance, and went. That is, from a Sithic point of view, the way things should've been, but certain spirits had other ideas, and manage to extend their existence beyond what was "proper". Lorkhan was introduced, to bring mortality to these beings, to some degree of success.

However, the same problem Lorkhan "solved" on a mythic scale came to exist in this new world. While most people came and went as they were supposed to, there are certain lineages, institutions, etc. that seek to extend their existence beyond what is proper, that are able to enlarge and extend themselves by devouring others. Enter the Dark Brotherhood, another Spawn of Sithis, just as Lorkhan was. Institutionally speaking, they kill for money.

However, they introduce an element of chaos into the efforts to strengthen institutions to live on beyond their creators. Though all individuals eventually meet death (certain exceptionally powerful mages excepted), the institutions they create can live on. If, however, an element of chaos, a happy band of murderers who will (and moreover, can) go after anyone if asked, is introduced, these institutions are destabilized.

In short, Sithis "favors" the continual flow of life and death, the limitation of existence, and acts to counter any efforts to break those limits. On the stage of Myth, Lorkhan serves this end. On the stage of Society, the Brotherhood serves this purpose.

Note that this only comments on the "behavior" of Sithis. It still doesn't explain what Sithis is.