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Dwemer..

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:26 am
by oliver klosoff
I'm sure this is a long dead horse and sorry to beat it. However, I was reading the Skeleton Man interview.. and was curious.

Kagrenac was devoted to his people, and the Dwarves, despite what you may have read, were a pious lot-he would not have sacrificed so many of their golden souls to create Anumidum's metal body if it were all in the name of grand theater. Kagrenac had even built the tools needed to construct a Mantella, the Crux of Transcendence. But, by then, and for a long time coming, the Doom of the Dwarves marched upon the Mountain and they were removed from this world.

From what I read that what happened to the Dwemer is completely unknown. I'm assuming this part of the article is intentionally left open for people to interpret how they want. Someone told me every Dwemer was sacrificed to create Anumidum's body.. but the article says "So many." Wouldn't this mean that not all were sacrificed, just people some of the Dwemer were sacrificed and their true disappearance is still unknown?

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:29 pm
by darnell waddington
The Dwemer are special in their views. If one could misinterpret the name of their religion (they were said to be 'pious'), one might name it negalithic refusatronic world-navel-gazinism.

At any rate, we only know of one who survived. But Kagrenac called together most if not all the Dwarves...

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:45 pm
by Suzie Dalziel
From what I read that what happened to the Dwemer is completely unknown. I'm assuming this part of the article is intentionally left open for people to interpret how they want. Someone told me every Dwemer was sacrificed to create Anumidum's body.. but the article says "So many." Wouldn't this mean that not all were sacrificed, just people some of the Dwemer were sacrificed and their true disappearance is still unknown?
In that context, no, that's not what it means or implies. Also, there was at least one Dwemer left alive, after all.

As far as their disappearance being completely unknown, that's not really true. The http://www.imperial-library.info/content/final-report-trebonius delves deep into the subject and makes a conclusion that has been widely accepted as true.

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:30 pm
by Max Van Morrison
There is one left.

As for what actually happened, I find http://www.imperial-library.info/content/final-report-trebonius a convincing essay.

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:47 pm
by Lisa
I hope this helps:

http://imperial-library.info/content/final-report-trebonius


M'Aiq said it best - "The Dwarves were here, and now they are not!" That's all that really matters.

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:47 am
by Daddy Cool!
Now my question concerning or Dwemer brothers is this:

Did Tiber Septim have to make contact with the "Golden Spirit-Skin" of Anumdium to have it do his bidding? Or was it truly just a mindless construct?

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:54 pm
by Sweet Blighty
Now my question concerning or Dwemer brothers is this:

Did Tiber Septim have to make contact with the "Golden Spirit-Skin" of Anumdium to have it do his bidding? Or was it truly just a mindless construct?
That is discussed in http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1335850-numidiums-awareness/ :thumbsup:

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:58 pm
by Toby Green
In that context, no, that's not what it means or implies. Also, there was at least one Dwemer left alive, after all.
What exactly does it mean or imply?

As far as their disappearance being completely unknown, that's not really true. The Final Report to Trebonius delves deep into the subject and makes a conclusion that has been widely accepted as true.

Hmm alright, I read this as well. While widely accepted, it's not exactly the truth though? I mean it's a fan made response.. and Bethesda could do whatever they want with the Dwemer lore I'd assume?

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:57 pm
by JUDY FIGHTS
What exactly does it mean or imply?
It implies that Kagrenac might throw away Dwemer souls just for experimenting, but that this was a different situation. The "so many" does not mean as opposed to all of them, it means as opposed to only a few. "So many" can still include "all."

Hmm alright, I read this as well. While widely accepted, it's not exactly the truth though? I mean it's a fan made response.. and Bethesda could do whatever they want with the Dwemer lore I'd assume?
It's been explicitly stated by ex-dev MK that the Dwemer became the skin of Numidium. And yes, Bethesda can do whatever they want with the lore, but that's a moot point. They could decide all Daedric Princes are actually bunnies in costumes and that Nirn is actually New York City. We are left to make conclusions based on what we know and assume that's the lore that will be upheld in the future, not based on the endless possibilities of what could happen just because Bethesda can do whatever they want. It's the only theory that makes any sense and has actual lore to back it up.

This theory is further backed up by the events of Skyrim, where we see Arniel Gane disappear when using Keening on the Warped Soul Gem. He becomes bound to the nearest potentially divine being; in this case, the player-character.

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:19 am
by Bird
This theory is further backed up by the events of Skyrim, where we see Arniel Gane disappear when using Keening on the Warped Soul Gem. He becomes bound to the nearest potentially divine being; in this case, the player-character.

Where can I find that quest?

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:28 pm
by Elina
Where can I find that quest?
Starts from Arniel Gane at the CoW.

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:26 pm
by Kate Schofield
Well, there's Yagrum, but there's also the ghosts. So it could be that Kagrenac sacrificed only select groups of Dwemer: every Dwarf from the Rourken clan (which would explain why there's no Dwarven Spectres in Skyrim), all of them in Mournhold (except Radac), and only specific ones on Vvardenfell.

Unless of course, the ghosts simply flicker in and out of existence at the whim of Numidium, just like how the Dragonborn can summon Arniel Gane.

Everyone always goes on about how special Yagrum is, but it's the ghosts I'm more interested in.

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:45 pm
by Amy Cooper
That doesn't work for two reasons.

First off is the idea behind the Numidium. It's not a warmachine to further the Dwemer cause. Rather it is a reversal of the process that fragmented the divine into Dwemer. Only sacrificing certain groups would be besides the point.

Second. The Dwemer who died before they disappeared can be used to explain the ghosts. That they only appear in certain games / expansion packs is probably related to gameplay.

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:55 am
by Curveballs On Phoenix
"Kagrenac was devoted to his people, and the Dwarves, despite what you may have read, were a pious lot-he would not have sacrificed so many of their golden souls to create Anumidum's metal body if it were all in the name of grand theater. Kagrenac had even built the tools needed to construct a Mantella, the Crux of Transcendence."

Okay. So now everyone can stop posting about where the Dwarves went. I TOLD YOU EIGHTY YEARS AGO.

Filthy with it, I am.
In short, the dwemer are the Numidium. All of them, save for YB.

Old ass info from before Oblivion. Really though, am I the only one who saved this for just such occasions?

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:52 am
by Michelle davies
Second. The Dwemer who died before they disappeared can be used to explain the ghosts. That they only appear in certain games / expansion packs is probably related to gameplay.

Gameplay? That's a pretty weak excuse for the Lore Forum. I expected better from you, Proweler. :nope:

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:41 am
by Frank Firefly
It implies that Kagrenac might throw away Dwemer souls just for experimenting, but that this was a different situation. The "so many" does not mean as opposed to all of them, it means as opposed to only a few. "So many" can still include "all." It's been explicitly stated by ex-dev MK that the Dwemer became the skin of Numidium. And yes, Bethesda can do whatever they want with the lore, but that's a moot point. They could decide all Daedric Princes are actually bunnies in costumes and that Nirn is actually New York City. We are left to make conclusions based on what we know and assume that's the lore that will be upheld in the future, not based on the endless possibilities of what could happen just because Bethesda can do whatever they want. It's the only theory that makes any sense and has actual lore to back it up. This theory is further backed up by the events of Skyrim, where we see Arniel Gane disappear when using Keening on the Warped Soul Gem. He becomes bound to the nearest potentially divine being; in this case, the player-character.

Well the Bethesda thing isn't moot. What I was trying to say is that until Bethesda (Not Ex-Employee) says what happened to them, everything is speculation. Even with a ton of supporting facts it's still nothing more than speculation and assumption. I understand that people want it to be the truth.. but is it until the creators confirm it's the truth?

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:29 am
by Taylor Thompson
Well the Bethesda thing isn't moot. What I was trying to say is that until Bethesda (Not Ex-Employee) says what happened to them, everything is speculation. Even with a ton of supporting facts it's still nothing more than speculation and assumption. I understand that people want it to be the truth.. but is it until the creators confirm it's the truth?
The only thing that is certain is that nothing is certain. Everything is speculation in the Elder Scrolls universe.

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:42 am
by jodie
The only thing that is certain is that nothing is certain. Everything is speculation in the Elder Scrolls universe.

haha Fair enough.

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:45 am
by TWITTER.COM
Well the Bethesda thing isn't moot. What I was trying to say is that until Bethesda (Not Ex-Employee) says what happened to them, everything is speculation. Even with a ton of supporting facts it's still nothing more than speculation and assumption. I understand that people want it to be the truth.. but is it until the creators confirm it's the truth?
Oh come on, he said it when he was still a dev. Now that he's not, it doesn't count? Sounds like crap, considering the CoW quest line about the dwemer seems to hint at this too.

Where can I find that quest?
A guy in the other dorm in the College of Winterhold, second floor. He'll make you gather some dwemer things at first, then other stuff. Isn't until about two or three quests in he tells you it's about dwemer research.

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:33 am
by Hannah Barnard
Could the fact that one Dwemer did not dissappear have an effect on if the experiement was a success?


I mean...if every dwemer was need for a success, then even one missing could have completely screwed the results.

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:26 am
by Andrew Tarango
Some summize he was there to flip the switch from "off" to "on" but forgot. Maybe YB isn't really "dwemer." Or, it was an oops.

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:37 am
by Trey Johnson
Some summize he was there to flip the switch from "off" to "on" but forgot. Maybe YB isn't really "dwemer." Or, it was an oops.

Or 99.9999% of a god is enough god to still be a god.

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:53 pm
by I’m my own
Even with a ton of supporting facts it's still nothing more than speculation and assumption. I understand that people want it to be the truth.. but is it until the creators confirm it's the truth?

The same can be said about gravity. If we're wrong about it, given all those supporting facts we'll hardly be far off. :D

Gameplay? That's a pretty weak excuse for the Lore Forum. I expected better from you, Proweler. :nope:

It's my favourite excuse. :P

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:51 am
by Peter P Canning
I love you simply because you call them Dwemer, not Dwarves.

Dwemer..

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:36 pm
by Naomi Ward
They'll be back, thats what you can be sure about.