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I have no idea what you're talking about, but I presume that the Ethos Knife is connected to the origins of Tribunal led Dunmeri culture in the murder of Nerevar.

He porked Molag Bal

And Molag Bal liked it.

After reading every post in this thread....I'm still not quite sure what it's all about :wacko:

But then Molag Bal's girlfriend, Meridia, found out. Whew, that must have been a storm. I heard she zapped, like, seven khajiits to cool off. Then kicked Bal out of her house (Colored Rooms).

I wonder if he tried to get Meridia back....

Well, he mentioned Stephen, and if this forum's lucky not the Stephen I'm thinking of.


well, since the first post is an assortment of quotes from the Sermons, we can say it's about "lies," meaning the sermons, "from and intermidiate age," being when Vivec says things, because it hapens ongoing.

But since we're going on about Molag Bal, I have a question about his and Vivec's children. since daedra don't create, but only change what's there, how could He, even with a non-Daedric partner, create life in the form of children? The only way I can see is changing the egg and sperm cells to a Zygote, and from there to a child (or several), but then again, since the Sermons are either A: A crock or B: metaphors for the purpose of instructing the nerevarine, does that even matter?

once you go crocodile headed god you never go back. Just look at her, "http://www.imperial-library.info/book_daedra/dae_meridia.jpg!"

V & B's children were not physical babies: they were new concepts and ideas, many of which were dangerous and had to be defeated.

So metaphor then? And ha de ha ha on "dangerous ideas." Really shows the "king" side of 'god-king," dosen't it?

Actually, that would make sense, if only Sahlm'n were really Salmon. Then it would just be DELICIOUS.
Wait, I'm a vegetarian. So no, it's bad!

Ethos Knife is in proverb to being in an Intermediate Age becauuuse..well, remember how the West Gash region was formed? And how the Lie Rock was stopped in the air? And how Nerevar KNEW that 'Love is under [Vivec's] will only.', and etc etc etc? There's something that happens once the Intermediary form of one's life is over, and that is the 'old-age' stage, where knowledge is accumulated and sought after for experience. The Ethos Knife was also mentioned in Yokuda, aside from being the Atom-Splitter, it's what Cyrus feared most in Vivec.

So I'm thinking this guy is just trying to tell us all he loves [censored].

i suppose they could be called a metaphor, but since they actually did exist (at least in the Sermons version of history) they more like a corporeal manifestation. avatars, if you will.

dont know what you mean by the 2nd part.

oh wait, i wasnt supposed to reply to this thread.


+1 if you get what im referencing.

Man, Meridia has NO self-respect. We should throw a party for her instead! Quick! Someone call Sanguine! Dagon could bartend because he has four arms. Azura could do karaoke. Clavicus would probably try to get into Nocturnal's cloak (she would sick her ravens on him. Oh the lols!). Namira would be doing hardcoe baking, because she's like a grandma. Boethiah wouldn't be at the party because he/she would be busy tracking down Bal to beat him up. Hermaus Mora would write a poem to cheer Meridia up, of course. Hircine would bring in the meat from a hunt, and give everyone a puppy. Malacath wouldn't be invited because he and Bal are best-buddies. Mephala would be at the shindig, flirting with Dagon, and planning a prank on Azura. Peryite would be sticking close to Meridia (He was the nerd back in Daedra College 101, and Meridia was the most popular exchange-student from Aetherius University. But Molag Bal got her first! That jerk!) Sheogorath would be telling jokes and giving people string and clockwatches as presents. Vaermina would probably be sitting in a corner, hating everyone and everything, while also enjoying a fine beer.

As for Jgy, he would be rocking out on the bass guitar for no reason, since he's kinda weird.

The Divines weren't invited because they are losers!

Sounds fun, count me in.

I find the original post to be too vague to be warrent further investigation. But, regardless of the intentions of the original poster, it brings up topics that might be worth discussing. The Ethos Knife comes to mind, which has already recieved some discussion. By the way, I don't think the phallic interpretation is really appropriate for the Ethos Knife. Appropriate for Muatra, certainly, but I feel impelled to interpret the Ethos Knife in terms of the actual meaning of the word ethos.

I don't think Vivec's rendezvouz with Molag Bal was wholly consensual. Bal is the king of what? Also compare the events of sermon 12 to what happens to Nir in the Anuad.

Well, it can be both, right? I mean, it can be a phallic symbol but still have the whole "ethos" deal going. wait, do you mean like in "Ethos, pathos and logos?"

As for Vivec's children, another conclusion is that they are both metaphor and literal, dangerous ideas that the "king" part of the 'god-king" saw as a threat to be stamped out. In a world where myth and semantics are as concrete as brick and blade, they could also have been subsequent physical creations born of the power of the ideas themselves, to give a literal show for the metaphorical putting down of unapproved thoughts?

I'm not sure if the phallic symbolism adds anything useful to the concept of the Ethos Knife. Where is the Ethos Knife used in a phallic/sixual way? (I could be forgetting something, I haven't read the lessons closely in a long time).

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ethos

?noun 1. Sociology. the fundamental character or spirit of a culture; the underlying sentiment that informs the beliefs, customs, or practices of a group or society; dominant assumptions of a people or period: In the Greek ethos the individual was highly valued.
2. the character or disposition of a community, group, person, etc.
3. the moral element in dramatic literature that determines a character's action rather than his or her thought or emotion.

That's what I mean.

Honestly, if you want to understand something in the sermons (or any other work of literature, ingame or out of game), start by seeing what the actual word means, and then try to see how the word is being used specifically in the context of the work.

On Vivec's children, I take the Eight Monsters to be the precursors to the Aedra, hunting them down amounts to putting the world in order. Something similar can be said as regarding gathering the eight spokes and making the wheel. The thousands of other monsters were concepts that ultimately didn't play a role in the creation of the world.

Thought you meant it that way, just making sure

Really the phallic thing I only don't rule out because this is the sermons we're talking about, and ivec is a horndog.

But "Ethos knife...proper commerce" taken seriously probably means just what the word is, that he did something, that is here represented as stabbing in the face which allowed for the use of "prper" commerce, which is to say an orderly consumer culture, which is the easiest kind to keep down.

As for the second Ethos knife line, that's a bit obviously Red Mountain, what with Dumac and the heart and all. Remove the Dwemer, who did not bow to the Tribunal in these and the Dunmer culture and religion elsewhere and you have yet more order, less people against your rule.

Well, perhaps Vivec and/or (no need for them to be exactly the same) MK intended them to be proto-Aedra, perhaps not. I personally believe them to be a metaphor/avatar of dangerous ideas that strong-arm governments like monarchies and theocracies view as dangerous thoughts to be put down.

Seems to be a pattern, wouldn't you say?

The Ethos Knife is that horrifically embarrassing wobbling of the knees that afflicts horny teenagers when asking a girl out to the prom. It cuts that sh*t up like you wouldn't believe.

No, no. The Ethos Knife is OBVIOUSLY the Stanky Leg.

Did we end up talking about six every time somebody has tried to make a pseudocryptic post in here? If so, awesome. Let's do it again.

Snipped the first bit because I've said my part on that.

The eight monsters can be both "proto-Aedra" and dangerous ideas. After all, et'ada are dangerous ideas. On another level, I take the conquest of the eight monsters to describe (perhaps in an aggrandized fashion) various exploits of Vivec as a warrior and politician.

Anyways, on the eight monsters being the eight Aedra/proto-Aedra (I'm not really hung up on either interpretation):

Sermons 12 and 14 are Vivec's rendezvouz with Molag Bal, and the eight monsters aren't mentioned again until sermon 19. Sermons 15 through 17 are Vivec's lessons to the Horator/Nerevar, sermon 17 being when they journey over the world and collect the spokes and make the wheel. Of course making the wheel is part of the process of (re)creating the world. Thus, sermon 18 is when Vivec begins to write the book of hours "because the world was about to bend with its age," and by deciding to write the book of hours Vivec destroys himself (also check out the last line). Sermon 19 is in the "non-spatial space" from which he goes in search of the Eight Monsters. Given the events that preceded it, and the context, the conquest of the Eight Monsters seems to me to be (as well as other things) a metaphorical description of the eight Aedra being tricked/coerced/convinced to take part of the creation of the world.

Malacath isn't any fun at parties anyway!

He'd bring his little brothers along and smash everything. Man...What a jerk....And they call Dagon the destructive one.

Translated:

Someone kill this thread. Kill it now.

The only problem with this is that Jyggalag's the cop who breaks the party up on some BS noise violation, which is why he's even less popular at parties than Malacath. At least with Malacath you can expect a decent drunken scrap.

Other than that IT'S PERFECT.

And it also makes me wonder about absurdly cliche Vivec/Meridia hurt/comfort fic that someone needs to write. In suitably subliterate fangirlish ways.